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Author Topic: American Politics Omnibus Megathread of DOOM  (Read 71604 times)

RedKing

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Re: American Politics Omnibus Megathread of DOOM
« Reply #540 on: January 24, 2013, 02:48:02 pm »

They also lowered recruitment standards at the height of the Iraq War.

Drug convictions? Meh.
Mental health issues? Meh.
Fucking fatass that can't do a pushup? Meh.

They even changed boot camp standards to be less strenuous. Granted, much of our weaponry is push-button remote killing now anyways, but still....
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: American Politics Omnibus Megathread of DOOM
« Reply #541 on: January 24, 2013, 02:56:13 pm »

I am referring to the modern, post-Vietnam SSS, which was changed a great deal from the old SSS.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: American Politics Omnibus Megathread of DOOM
« Reply #542 on: January 24, 2013, 03:05:01 pm »

I don't see why young men should have to suffer disproportionately. Women should be conscripted along with men out of the very principle of equality.

Why don't you just go and do the better, egalitarian thing and remove conscription for all sexes?

Sometimes these days I wonder...

RedWarrior0

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Re: American Politics Omnibus Megathread of DOOM
« Reply #543 on: January 24, 2013, 03:18:36 pm »

They even changed boot camp standards to be less strenuous
Nice link there. Where's it take you?
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Dutchling

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Re: American Politics Omnibus Megathread of DOOM
« Reply #544 on: January 24, 2013, 03:22:04 pm »

They even changed boot camp standards to be less strenuous
Nice link there. Where's it take you?
to be less strenuous of course. Duhh.
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Nadaka

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Re: American Politics Omnibus Megathread of DOOM
« Reply #545 on: January 24, 2013, 03:28:49 pm »

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assault-weapons-ban-summary

When was the last time a belt fed gun was used in a violent crime in America?

This bans the sale of some small caliber revolvers with more than 10 round capacities.

Again, there is a focus on cosmetic and convenience features.

It is basically a bunch of BS about guns that look scary, with an additional ban on anything with over 10 rounds.

Note: this does not have a sunset, it is a permanent restriction.

The one good thing I see is that it bans bump fire stocks which can convert a semi-auto gun to an extremely inaccurate fully auto gun.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 03:32:59 pm by Nadaka »
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Dutchling

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Re: American Politics Omnibus Megathread of DOOM
« Reply #546 on: January 24, 2013, 03:32:58 pm »

<What are Belt-fed semiautomatic firearms?>
//Googles it//

Yeah.... I really see no reason at all to ban those  ::)
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MonkeyHead

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Re: American Politics Omnibus Megathread of DOOM
« Reply #547 on: January 24, 2013, 03:35:14 pm »

Nadaka, could you explain to me exactly why anyone needs a firearm that can fire 10 times in reasonably rapid succession without needing to be reloaded?

RedKing

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Re: American Politics Omnibus Megathread of DOOM
« Reply #548 on: January 24, 2013, 03:43:35 pm »

Bah fuck. It was to a Daily Show clip making fun of the reduced standards at boot camp. Too busy to be arsed to find it again.


I don't see why young men should have to suffer disproportionately. Women should be conscripted along with men out of the very principle of equality.

Why don't you just go and do the better, egalitarian thing and remove conscription for all sexes?

Sometimes these days I wonder...
There's a pretty decent argument to the opposite effect: that egalitarianism is better served by universal conscription than by an all-volunteer force. One problem with the all-volunteer force is that it effectively segregates the military from the civilian world, and more importantly, segregates the civilian world from the military.

A lot of people today just do not understand how the military operates because they weren't in it, nobody in their family was in it, none of their friends were in it. Likewise, people can afford to be a lot more gung-ho about going to war if they know their asses (and their kids' asses) won't be on the line. They're also less understanding of the problems of veterans returning home. Sure, people love flag stickers and maybe making a donation to some veterans' cause. But ask them if they'll hire a vet who might have PTSD, and they'll find a reason not to. Ask if they'll keep a Guardsman's job waiting for them when they come off deployment. Ask if they'll fight for VA benefits. A lot of armchair patriots talk a good game about how much they love the military, but they don't give a REAL flying fuck about them once the shooting stops.

On the flipside, the all-volunteer military often suffers from a superiority complex as a self-selected warrior caste. They're the "protectors of liberty", so fuck civilian law. If they had a little too much to drink, or got a little rough with a girl, or got in a bar fight, the cops should cut them some slack, right? Not like that fucking fatass cop ever saw time in Iraq. I've been around enough base towns to know that this is an almost ubiquitous problem -- military personnel trying to use their status to get away with shit. Even my dad used to wear his full Navy dress uniform when he drove back to Iowa, because once he got more than 40-50 miles outside of Norfolk, he could break the speed limit with near-impunity. Any cop that pulled him over would see the uniform and let him go with a warning.

If everybody has a potential stake in the warfighting (and I mean EVERBODY..none of this bullshit exemptions for rich kids), I think US society as a whole would become far less enthusiastic about wars, and the military would be more integrated into society and stop pulling so much bullshit.

I am curious to see what Strife's reaction is, since he's in the combat arms.
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GlyphGryph

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Re: American Politics Omnibus Megathread of DOOM
« Reply #549 on: January 24, 2013, 03:46:50 pm »

Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing us switch to a conscription-based army either. A situation like in Switzerland where everyone is expected to serve time?
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Nadaka

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Re: American Politics Omnibus Megathread of DOOM
« Reply #550 on: January 24, 2013, 03:47:11 pm »

<What are Belt-fed semiautomatic firearms?>
//Googles it//

Yeah.... I really see no reason at all to ban those  ::)

The ban is ostensibly in order to reduce crime, I am unaware of any crimes committed with such a weapon.

Nadaka, could you explain to me exactly why anyone needs a firearm that can fire 10 times in reasonably rapid succession without needing to be reloaded?

1: Self defense against 2 or more attackers. You can not count on an arbitrary number of bullets being able to end a threat. Even someone with an eventually fatal wound can pose an immediate threat to your safety.

2: Shooting skeet/paper targets 10 or more times without reloading.

Can you explain to me exactly why a law abiding citizen needs to not be capable of firing 10 times in reasonably rapid succession without reloading?
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: American Politics Omnibus Megathread of DOOM
« Reply #551 on: January 24, 2013, 03:48:20 pm »

I am curious to see what Strife's reaction is, since he's in the combat arms.
As I recall, the last time we discussed women in combat roles Strife opposed it. I don't remember why, though.
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Jervill

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Re: American Politics Omnibus Megathread of DOOM
« Reply #552 on: January 24, 2013, 03:49:45 pm »

Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing us switch to a conscription-based army either. A situation like in Switzerland where everyone is expected to serve time?

I would agree with this, but have it a choice whether  to serve in the military or do public sector work for local governments for the people who simply are not cut out for military service.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: American Politics Omnibus Megathread of DOOM
« Reply #553 on: January 24, 2013, 03:51:52 pm »

On the flipside, the all-volunteer military often suffers from a superiority complex as a self-selected warrior caste. They're the "protectors of liberty", so fuck civilian law.
From the point of view of a country that loves volunteer armies, people don't stop caring about the military or the soldiers within, and the soldiers follow the same laws as the civilians, the same penalties as civilians.

GlyphGryph

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Re: American Politics Omnibus Megathread of DOOM
« Reply #554 on: January 24, 2013, 03:53:27 pm »

Which country is this where the military isn't above the law (or at least doesn't see themselves that way)? I'd like to visit.

Also, I'd be fine with people joining the equivalent of some sort of military corps of engineers or something dedicated to civil improvements or support roles or what not instead of combat roles.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 03:56:30 pm by GlyphGryph »
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