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[Plato Play-Doh]

I disagree. We need Arthur to stay with us.

It may be putting all our eggs in one basket, but getting a second one may attract the...fox? Do foxes eat eggs?

I'm pretty sure velociraptors ate eggs so... yeah. Dinos.

[Maldevious]

Any non-scheming plans for the winter? I'll probably update in the morning.

[jaass]

Send the Rangers out, tell them to map/look out for good ambush spots or where a army is most likely travel through.

[Mlamlah]

Hear any complaints or needs our people have. Spend some time with the family.

[Gervassen]

It may be putting all our eggs in one basket, but getting a second one may attract the...fox? Do foxes eat eggs?

The fox already had plans to invade this hen house. Why would we expect Feroshire not to get scrutiny when ill news comes of a hidden claimant? It's not that I really think Owen is a shrewd fox of a spymaster--he hasn't had time to set down those roots even if he had the aptitude--but Feroshire is so utterly obvious a place to look next. If we want Owen to march on Feroshire in early spring, keeping Arthur here is a good way to instigate it. We can't pretend that this place is low-key, and that Owen won;t send some people asking questions.

Right now, Owen suspects nothing, there's no ill gossip to connect the dots, and this young boy is just passing through our lands. He'll be forgotten by mid-December. And no one would ever suspect a low-key rural knight like Percival of harbouring the next Count. He's our close friend and backed us several other times, and it's time to entrust him with a major part in this plot.

Send the Rangers out, tell them to map/look out for good ambush spots or where a army is most likely travel through.

+1, although I'd hope for it to be unnecessary.

Any non-scheming plans for the winter? I'll probably update in the morning.

Dips and chair step-ups. Excellent exercises without load-bearing. Done them myself with a tweaked back. Bridges to regain strength in the back. Take it slowly at first, but keep incrementing the training. In January, begin sword training again with Finn. Let's stay away from Luther. He's a bad dude. Have we got him decent armour yet? 

[10ebbor10]

Also, Arthur poses a larger threat to the wannabe Count than us. Sending him somewhere else will force the Count to divert forces to his location first. We can then decide how we can support him best.

Also, I dunno if the Rat is someone who does inperson meetings.

[GreatWyrmGold]

It may be putting all our eggs in one basket, but getting a second one may attract the...fox? Do foxes eat eggs?

The fox already had plans to invade this hen house. Why would we expect Feroshire not to get scrutiny when ill news comes of a hidden claimant? It's not that I really think Owen is a shrewd fox of a spymaster--he hasn't had time to set down those roots even if he had the aptitude--but Feroshire is so utterly obvious a place to look next. If we want Owen to march on Feroshire in early spring, keeping Arthur here is a good way to instigate it. We can't pretend that this place is low-key, and that Owen won;t send some people asking questions.

He may be planning to invade, but at least we can protect our claimant if we keep him in Feroshire.

Right now, Owen suspects nothing, there's no ill gossip to connect the dots, and this young boy is just passing through our lands. He'll be forgotten by mid-December. And no one would ever suspect a low-key rural knight like Percival of harbouring the next Count. He's our close friend and backed us several other times, and it's time to entrust him with a major part in this plot.

However, if we make rumors, as we will, do you really think that Owen will only look in our lands for the claimant?

Send the Rangers out, tell them to map/look out for good ambush spots or where a army is most likely travel through.

+1, although I'd hope for it to be unnecessary.

Agreed.

Also, Arthur poses a larger threat to the wannabe Count than us. Sending him somewhere else will force the Count to divert forces to his location first. We can then decide how we can support him best.

On the other hand, we can't protect Arthur if he's away.

Also, I dunno if the Rat is someone who does inperson meetings.

Haven't we done one with him?

[Maldevious]

I'm going to let a little more time pass. If you haven't already, chime in about where to send Arthur, as that is the last big thing I need to post a turn. I'll be back this afternoon-ish to post.

[10ebbor10]

Do we need too? It's unlikely he's the only bastard. And if he's taken captive, it's our word against his.

By sending Arthur to Percival, we ensure his support for a rebellion.

[javierpwn]

With the support of the other Lords he will become Count. And that other guy is bad news.
No rebellion, but Owen might send an attacking force, which gives us the right to fight back.

[Gervassen]

We don't need a right to fight back. We're going to have the rightful claimant which is de facto a right to fight back. We want surprise, and to gather our supporters before he gathers his. If Arthur is found here, it is a blunt open challenge that he will be able to rally toward.

Guys, Percival is upriver and you have to go through us to get there. And cross a ford, because Percival is on the north bank of the river. Whatever protection you think we can give him here, we also give him upstream. Do you really think we're an obscure place? We're practically the second settlement of note in the county. Do you really want to fight Owen head on instead of surprising him?

However, if we make rumors, as we will, do you really think that Owen will only look in our lands for the claimant?

Probably. We're the only obvious antagonist. Rumours are just rumours. It's up to Owen how seriously he takes the rumours. The claimant doesn't have a sign with CLAIMANT on him wherever he goes. Owen's network and supporters are not established here beyond the city, and not likely to have a good spy network.  Suppposing they are good and can get their affairs in order enough to systemically search the countryside, they'll still be sifting through hundreds of dead leads, and devoting men to the distant fief of an unassuming small-time knight is a lot less likely a lead to be sifted than the most flamboyant and uppity peasant scoundrel with the rich bustling town. Even if they flail about in a panic, Feroshire is an obvious place to start.

On the other hand, we can't protect Arthur if he's away.

Not needing protection is better than protecting him where he is likely to need a lot of protection indeed.


There's also the unspoken matter that most of you are purely relying on an extension of the main character armour to help us keep Arthur safe in Feroshire. I guess we can forget surprise and subtlety after all.

[Truean]

....

You guys....

Alright so here's what we need to do and I'm not sure we're addressing this so far.

A.) Establish that he is, in fact, the de facto heir.

The following is pretty much true and should be taken that way.
1.) Count Owen's gonna be pissed, fight us on this (legally and illegally), and we need countermeasures.
2.) The prostitute and the kid will say things and those things may be looked upon as unreliable /self serving. Need zee proof. "Why yes, I am the count...."
3.) "The truth" is gonna be determined by other lords, who are probably more powerful than us. We need to get THEM on our side, not just the population. This isn't a democracy. We need the right people to believe us. Maybe that's the DUKE or the other lords.
4.) As it stands, this could look like one uppity, new, minor noble trying to trade barbs with another. We need backup before we start our little PR campaign.

Therefore, BEFORE we start the rumor mill into full swing:

Figure out how to legally establish him as the heir. It isn't like we have paternity tests.
Get other Lords on our side.
Talk to the wife and the DUKE about it.

Until we do that, we're looking suspiciously like we're conspiring against Owen, which, who are we kidding, we are.

THEN do all that other stuff. Keep the kid safe and out of sight until we have the proper foundation to challenge Owen.

HOWEVER, MOVE FAST, because if we don't, that lil slimeball is gonna get the position.... We want our slimeball to get the position, not the other slimeball.

[Urist McDwarfFortress]

Can we be sure Percival is on our side here? I mean, if this fails, it'll be viewed as rebellion and all of the "rebel" lords could probably be killed, or at least imprisoned. We need to be sure of Percival's loyalties before we entrust him with Arthur. For all we know Percival and Owen might be best friends...

[Gervassen]

Truean, you can't say "We have to do all this investigation stuff like plaintiffs in a 20th century law case" and then follow it with the words "MOVE FAST" also. It does not compute.

The bastard is the real heir because we say so. Owen is going to be a laughing-stock with ugly rumours attached to him soon. It's about competing networks of supporters, not a modern level of proof that you will never attain to everyone's satisfaction.

Also, I'm afraid that you don't have a sense for the timing. We tell the Duke after the whispers have settled in, so as to appear influenced by them, rather than influencing their very spread. We get other lords on our side after reducing Owen a bit and giving other lords whispers of an alternative. Your order of operations is terrifingly messed up.

We don;t bother to establish him legally as an heir beyond a shadow of a doubt, because that is a fool's errand. We're trying to get the Steward to turn for us, and we have some financial documents, and the striking similarity is helpful, but this is not a legal matter at heart. We can't MOVE FAST while asking all the questions that you'd like. We certainly can't MOVE SILENTLY while asking them.

Can we be sure Percival is on our side here?

He's a "Close Friend" and he's been in our other plots, offering to side with us against the former Count when an assassin attacked us. I trust him, and I'm usually paranoid. But if the lad stays in Feroshire, there's a good chance he's found if Owen makes any effort, then we get attacked while losing the initiative and surprise. Frankly, I never planned drawing aggro, so I disown the effects of the whisper plot if people won't let me stash Arthur some place out of sight.

[GreatWyrmGold]

However, if we make rumors, as we will, do you really think that Owen will only look in our lands for the claimant?

Probably. We're the only obvious antagonist...

Since this seems the core of your argument, I'll hack at it.
Why do you think Owen will think we don't have friends we could send him to? If I was Owen, I'd consider the possibility that Stone sent his claimant, should he exist, somewhere else and wouldn't limit my search (or else I'd have an advisor who would do so).

On the other hand, we can't protect Arthur if he's away.

Not needing protection is better than protecting him where he is likely to need a lot of protection indeed.

But why doesn't he need protection?

There's also the unspoken matter that most of you are purely relying on an extension of the main character armour to help us keep Arthur safe in Feroshire. I guess we can forget surprise and subtlety after all.

No, I'm relying on keeping the reality of the claimant more secret, Feroshire's defenses, and so forth. And the fact that there's already suspicions that Owen will attack us, which gives us the ability to send back investigations into our land searching for the claimant much more justifiably than if we needed to keep the secret in someone else's lands.


The simple issue is, Owen isn't the old Count; we can't assume he's a moron. If he's not, we can't assume he'll limit his search to Feroshire. If we stash him in Percival's land or somewhere, we can't keep an eye off him or justify sending the inevitable investigations away.