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[Talvara]

No. We do not go into this bluntly. Our plans are actually regressing here...

The writ is for official cover and to salve our modern sensibilities, but when you arrest the man that has all the count's dirt, do you think he doesn't get the implications? We do this in a way to capture him discreetly.

The Rat either finds a vulnerability in his daily schedule or creates one with a ruse. He's a wool merchant, so he may visit his suppliers in the countryside occasionally. Or he may be lured to a place inside the city with low protection on the pretense of speaking to a cloth-making merchant docked in the harbor. I'll leave that to the Rat. But, no, no barging in.

The Rat can rescue the hostages with his heavies. Everyone will be looking for us. Alan and any obvious soldiers are going to get raped hard in the Count's city, but thugs are quite common.

"and I will give you a warrant to do so"

Must've missed that.

Anyway, if we're going to use the warrant, do note that we're giving up any idea of stealth. It's litterally barging in, outbluffing the guards, and out. Don't think to do this discreetly.

I think this is a good way of looking at it. We'll barge in unannounced and in the night. Sway the (illiterate) guards with our fancy piece of paper. lift the merchant from his bed, Intimidate or reason him for the hostages. (at this point we have one of our trusted (probably Alan) take the merchant out of the city before anyone can react) and we go after the hostages with half of our rangers if that path has opened up for us. edit: (naturally Alan takes a men with him as well, probably the other half of the rangers)

One problem. City gates are closed at night. I don't think any guard is going to open them for anyone waving with a piece of paper. Would be pretty bad guards if they did.

alright you two make good points. plucking the man from his bed should be a last resort. but I'm confident we'll find a better and safer opening.

[Gervassen]

One problem. City gates are closed at night. I don't think any guard is going to open them for anyone waving with a piece of paper. Would be pretty bad guards if they did.

There's nothing strange about floating into the harbor in the evening on our way to make more preparations for our wedding in the Duke;s city downstream.

[Mlamlah]

We *do* have the authority to barge in and arrest him. If the count or anyone else tries to stop us they are aiding a traitor, which would only help our case against the count. I'm not against doing it at a good moment, but this is not a kidnap, it is an arrest.

[10ebbor10]

We *do* have the authority to barge in and arrest him. If the count or anyone else tries to stop us they are aiding a traitor, which would only help our case against the count. I'm not against doing it at a good moment, but this is not a kidnap, it is an arrest.

But he won't stop us.

What will happen is that first they'll need to see the Captain of guard, which will send us to a slightly higher noble , (repeat at bureaucracium), and by the time we get were we want, the cotton merchant has mysteriously vanished.

[kaian-a-coel]

So what we need to do is basically kidnap him in plain daylight and get out before the guards can react, using our magic paper and assurance to confuse and bypass them.

[Gervassen]

We *do* have the authority to barge in and arrest him. If the count or anyone else tries to stop us they are aiding a traitor, which would only help our case against the count. I'm not against doing it at a good moment, but this is not a kidnap, it is an arrest.

Authority. Hahah. Authority! You're grabbing the first and the most inculpatory domino in the fall of the Count, and you've got authority on your side. Good luck with that. So the count stops harming you because he doesn't want the suspicion of being a traitor, and he lets you leave with the certainty of being known as a traitor hanging over him!


The Gerv Plan

I'm going to assume an in-the-city scenario here, but my preference is outside the city.

We dock as evening approaches, chat around about our wedding preparations, and then go to the place that the Rat has set up. The merchant is captured somewhere outside his house, preferably near the dock. We announce his arrest, flash the paper, but mainly anticipate a struggle and be willing to kill any followers that the ruse has not peeled off.

I'd prefer killing them anyway, because they run to the Count. None of you would allow that. Now we have maybe twenty minutes to get on our boat and leave. The docks are on a river bank, so the harbor is not enclosed in a defensible bay from which escape would be difficult. No problem. We escape.

On the boat, we rough him up. We get the info, we put it in a note and shoot it at a rendezvous downstream, where one of the rat's most unassuming boys is waiting. He walks back to the city, and the Rat effects the rescue sometime during the night. This part is a little iffy, true, but it's the least critical part. If the boy is discovered, or the Rat's men find opposition only trained warriors can handle, it's finished. But we tried in pursuit of the Duke's request.

More important is us and the merchant. We're sailing down the river at a good clip.

[Gervassen]

And let's be clear about feudalism: All the city guards are sworn to defend the Count, and receive their livelihood from the Count. In France, not even the king's writ would get you any traction with them. In Britain, where the Conquest strengthened royal power considerably, the king's writ would probably have some power over them, maybe, but the Duke's writ is far more tenuous. They lose nothing by assuming your paper is fake, and everything by angering the Count who pays them. The difference between a man-at-arms and essentially being a commoner is patronage.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

We've been provided with the warrant, it's... kind of expected that we go through with it. We have no possible reason to delay. It might also confuse the Duke when we don't show up with the wanted criminal, he's kinda... waiting for us to bring him in.

I think once we get our hands on him we should simply bring him to the duke, it might look bad of we torture the fool.

I agree with no physical violence, though we can make him shit his pants without even messing up his hairbrush.
Remember that there is the count behind. We need him to free the hostages asap, then we bring him to the duke.

1: The plan requires us to kidnap a prominent merchant, apparently in his home, in the midst of a city...the Count's city guards haven't got any reason to be friendly.
2: The guards and Count probably care about an armed forced rudely intruding in their city. And remember, "accidents" happen.
3: The Count's harbour likely have some defenses, and will certainly have some guards
I don't have any problems with arresting the man, but remember...that the Count won't be cooperative.

We should really...give the council some forewarning of an possible attack.
(And possibly "fortify the barrack while we are away plus at least get some fortification around the mines.")

City gates are closed at night. I don't think any guard is going to open them for anyone waving with a piece of paper. Would be pretty bad guards if they did.

[P]lucking the man from his bed should be a last resort[,] but I'm confident we'll find a better and safer opening.

But he won't stop us.
What will happen is that first they'll need to see the Captain of guard, which will send us to a slightly higher noble , (repeat at bureaucracium), and by the time we get were we want, the cotton merchant has mysteriously vanished.

Authority. Hahah. Authority!

...

More important is us and the merchant.

And let's be clear about feudalism: All the city guards are sworn to defend the Count, and receive their livelihood from the Count...They lose nothing by assuming your paper is fake, and everything by angering the Count who pays them. The difference between a man-at-arms and essentially being a commoner is patronage.

Aye.
After so much discussion, it's easier to just quote everything you agree with without being any less derivative.

But I'll try. After all, I've quoted darn near everyone, and posts on both sides of various disputes. A moderate am I.

1. Whatever we do, we need to start this month.
2. However we do it, it will involve our rodent. I can't wait until I stop feeling like we're relying on him too much...but {INOD} curse it, we need him.
3. We should avoid subterfugey techniques if possible. It makes us look bad and probably won't work as well.
4. The merchant will probably flee if he can...and with the Count's aid, he probably can.
5. Once we get the merchant, bring him to the duke.

So.

We need to head to wherever the merchant lives, unnanounced if laws and our warrant allows such, leave some men on the road and some in obvious non-road ways out of the city, enter the city, show the warrant, never let it leave our hand, and get to the "actually get ahold of the merchant" part ASAP. Then send him to the Duke, ASAP.

[Gervassen]

We need to head to wherever the merchant lives, unnanounced if laws and our warrant allows such, leave some men on the road and some in obvious non-road ways out of the city, enter the city, show the warrant, never let it leave our hand, and get to the "actually get ahold of the merchant" part ASAP. Then send him to the Duke, ASAP.

I'll point out that carrying a hostage across land is hard, and the Count specialized his forces in cavalry. I'll also point out that someone else can show the worthless piece of paper while we touch the hilt of our sword.

And at this point, I think that I've said everything that I want to say. Just don't go into that city thinking you can get the Count's front man without a fight, please. Please, don't approach this as though your warrant does aught but soothe your conscience. The Count has every reason to get rid of his front man, one way or another, or fight like a lion should the front man be taken. That dude has dirt on the Count that you can't even conceive. We're probably just the tip of the iceberg.

[GreatWyrmGold]

We need to head to wherever the merchant lives, unnanounced if laws and our warrant allows such, leave some men on the road and some in obvious non-road ways out of the city, enter the city, show the warrant, never let it leave our hand, and get to the "actually get ahold of the merchant" part ASAP. Then send him to the Duke, ASAP.

I'll point out that carrying a hostage across land is hard,

Thankfully, we'll be taking him lawfully. How do police officers do it?

and the Count specialized his forces in cavalry.

So? If he tries to stop us so...brazenly, so openly, he's betraying the Duke if not the King. No contact is worth that.

I'll also point out that someone else can show the worthless piece of paper while we touch the hilt of our sword.

...If needed, why not?

Just don't go into that city thinking you can get the Count's front man without a fight, please.

Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

Please, don't approach this as though your warrant does aught but soothe your conscience.

It also gives us the legal right to do this, which means that should this come down to a contest of arms, the Crown and various allies will be on our side.

The Count has every reason to get rid of his front man, one way or another, or fight like a lion should the front man be taken. That dude has dirt on the Count that you can't even conceive. We're probably just the tip of the iceberg.

All the better for us--worst comes to worst, the Count arranges an "accident" for his nephew-in-law.

[Mlamlah]

All the better for us--worst comes to worst, the Count arranges an "accident" for his nephew-in-law.

Which will still further implicate him. The Count and his nephew-in-law have handled this incompetently enough that they can't win, any further resistance will only land each of them further in the hole.

[GreatWyrmGold]

All the better for us--worst comes to worst, the Count arranges an "accident" for his nephew-in-law.

Which will still further implicate him.

Precisely.

[Gervassen]

Implications further down the line don't matter much when his men hack you to pieces.

The Count can't predict the fall-out from you having an "accident" in his city, but he's an old established noble who basically rules the roost in his domain. He probably feels confident enough risking a little ire if you go missing. On the other hand, he can predict the fall-out of his front man getting jailed and talking.

Implications won't matter when you move overland, and they catch up to you. You've got the man who ends everything for the Count, his damned nephew-in-law, as you endlessly reminded me last time, who we shouldn't antagonize him by abducting. Now, one piece of paper without a single extra soldier to enforce it has seemingly been a game changer and makes you stride into his lands and be surrounded by his men and horses confidently.

Your argument this time is that our paper means something, that if the Count catches up to us, that paper means our life rather than we go missing without a trace. Be logical. It's far better to catch us and dispose of us than risk his nephew-in-law talking, whatever the fall-out of a upjumped peasant disappearing.

[Jbg97]

Can we just poison the bastard like we talked about when we first met him?!

[Gervassen]

Thankfully, we'll be taking him lawfully. How do police officers do it?

What the hell is a police officer? Are you even trying to pretend that this is the middle ages?