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[10ebbor10]

Try to attract skilled tailors and carpenters to enlarge our small furniture workshop into a medium or, preferably, large Furniture and clothing mill which can produce not only normal, 'commoner' clothing and furniture but also high class clothing and furniture. Should net us a tonne of extra trade, influence and money. And also give them apprentices.

Tailoring (especially coloring) and the associated tannery tends to be associated with pollution downriver. Considering the Count lives there, I think not. Besides, our town is not large enough to support such an endeavour.

Also, we should get onto the task of trying to attract intelligent people and skilled metal workers/armourers/blacksmiths/weapon smiths etc to help us advance our metalworking industry. I will get us an armour factory even if it kills me. Do you have any idea how much money we'd make, trade we'd receive and influence we'd gain from pumping out good/high quality metal armour at such a rate? We already have the money to fund such an endeavour (profits from our mine, taxes and existing trade).

Nope, not doing this. We have exactly 168 citizens living in our capital town. Such a factory'd probably employ several times more than that. Besides, I'm pretty sure we don't have the finances. (The mine isn't that large). Also, I think we don't have the right to produce weapons on that scale.

Also start enlarging the agriculture even more. We might want to think about trying to set up a dairy and meat industry, and maybe broaden the number of cereal grains, fruits and vegetables we grow. We dont want to suffer the same disaster as the Irish potato famine because we forgot to enlarge our agriculture to support a burgeoning population, as happening in real life.

The Irish Potato famine was primarly caused by a potato disease, and the huge reliance on potatos.

TL'dr: Stop the megalomanie, think twice before commiting all our resources to a project doomed to fail.


On the topic of a library. I highly doubt we'll be able to afford it. These are the medieval ages, books costed their weight of Gold, and often more. Besides, the only books you could reliably find, were the Bible, The Bible, and guess what, The Bible. This means prices for other books are highly inflated.

Longbows and recurve bows are far superior to composite bows.

Tell that to the Mongols. Anyway, longbows/recurvebows and composite bows are not mutually exclusive. You could have a composite longbow. The primaly problem, as stated earlier, is that composite bows tend to fall apart due to the high humidity.

Tl'dr:

We need to focus on the people first. It's unlikely we can rise a city from nothing, but we have to try I suppose. Or find some kind of city to steal. First things are improving agriculture, and the rest'll follow. If we want any major architectural works done, we'd need to do them now, not later.

[tryrar]

seeing as quite often ideas that are brought forth here require alot of smart/knowledgeable people... maybe we should take some steps to try and attract those sorts of people.

We could begin with building a library and start buying books for a good price. if the shipping merchants learn we pay good coin for good books, they might make an effort to find a nice book when they know they'll pass our little city again.



on another note, We should take special care that we'll have a proper facilities for her Falcon.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Neither hawks or falcons are suitable house-pets because they have spectacular mode of excretion, they are tradionally kept on special perches standing in sand, the mews. Richard II let build the Royal Mews at Charing Cross in London, and the office of Master of the Mews is still extant. "
http://www.shm-qa.net/monograph/grethe_Falcons.shtml

which were apparently called Mews...

I'm sure it would be a heartfelt and thoughtful surprise for when Marna moves into our estate.

Seconded.

Libraries and maybe a school or college for scholars? If we get large enough, we could even construct a small university.....

Does anyone remember my large college of war idea?

Nope

Seriously though, I keep having to remind you guys we were going for light troops/skirmishers supported by foot archer formations. I know skirmishers aren't really as glamorous as all these other crazy ideas you guys have bouncing around, but trust me, a properly run skirmish force can be absolutely devastating to an enemy formation in preparation of a clash with regular troops, plus they complement our rangers well by also being skilled in ambush tactics. So my proposal is to crosstrain the melle troops with both spear and axe, and also have the smiths make franciscas and teach the troops to throw them. Then, we start on better bows for our archers, something along the lines of proper longbows/recurve bows(though technically recurve bows were more used in countries that were drier and had less forests, since they allowed for equivalent power with shorter bows using less wood, which isn't the case here). After that, we start with combined arms tactics on using our skirmishers and bowmen together effectively. Also, see if we can get more ranger recruits and train up the rangers more.

Also, 10ebbor, you support me right? I don't tend to have god complexes in this game...

[Gotdamnmiracle]

/\ Yes, That is why we should use some woodworkers or something.

There are methods of making things waterproof (Varnish, turpentine, What have you, it is worth looking into alongside of training our skrimishers.+While we do that we build our stable and start breeding horses and buying more like a boss.

While we breed the horses + look for metal crafters.

Then new weapons + training of rangers.

 Skirmisher and mounted archer tactics+ stronghold.

 New armor+Whatever.

This is what I see for the future for a basic guideline. Tweak and peak.

[tryrar]

Well, technically, unless we really ARE going for mounted archers, there are no real advantages to have foot archers wielding composite bows(which recurve bows technically ARE) compared to longbows. Both could shoot arrows with a similar force(the only real difference being draw weights and lengths of the bows), and composite bows take MUCH longer to make compared to longbows-plus requiring much more skilled craftsmen(while a longbow typically took about a day to make and a week to cure, a composite bow took a week to craft and MONTHS to cure to allow the glues to dry properly).

TL:DR Don't bother with fancy composite bows unless we go for mounted archers(and we're not IIRC), so we don't need that many woodworkers. Guys, trust me on this, I know my bows I was in my school's archery club . Plus, this stuff isn't all that hard to look up besides.

As for the rest, I'm pretty sure we ALREADY have a stable(it was one of my suggestions after all!), and just lack proper horse trainers/breeders. I'm ok finding more metalcrafters(especially slivercrafters so we can turn out fine silver crafts for our friends and for trade, and for our jewelers to encrust; I did suggest a turn or two back in seeing if a jeweler wanted to cross-trade!)

Yes to also crafting better bows and standardizing our weapons by crosstraining our foot troops with both spear and axe(the axe mainly so they know how to use throwing axes like fraciscas), and getting our rangers better trained+more ranger recruits. NO to mounted archers(at least until we have decent horses. No point in training them now if we don't have the horses for them people!) , yes to training our troops in skirmisher tactics(and working in our rangers into regular formations if needed), and yes to continuing to work on our manor by starting on the second stage(the proper lords quarters and kitchen/guest wing)and starting on the outer walls.

IIRC mal said brigandine is about what we can currently produce, and honestly its the best possible armor for our skirmishers since it provides good protection without restricting movement or mobility very much(especially compared to chainmail, which is surprisingly heavy to most people, and restricts movement somewhat). For added protection we can take advantage of the new leatherworks opening in a nearby town and order padded leather jerkins to wear underneath(and for our archers to wear). As previously said, the shields of our melee troops should be small and light, about buckler-sized(or at most double the size of a buckler).

The only other "whatever" I can think of is getting permission from the duke to convert the town palisade to actual proper brick walls+gates and to slightly fortify the mining camp

[Mlamlah]

I really think we should calm down with the military expansion guys. Considering our relatively low population and point in development we already have a really beefy army with pretty decent equipment, if anything we should simply be focusing on training them.

I think we need to stop expanding into various industries and focus expanding the industries we already *have*, y'know, the figurative (and literal) gold mine we have in our back yard. Even beyond that now, we need to create better living arrangements for our people so we can support a higher population, so that we can actually do some of the things we want to do later, be that military or economic.

On the idea of libraries... maybe a little ambitious, but i am fully in support of using a little of our wealth to purchase a small collection of written knowledge, it's something we've sought out in the past but that never panned out. A fully fledged library isn't really worth it right now, but having some books with useful applications would be nice.

I also think we should noble up our estate a bit, get some furnishings and such, the minimum of the trappings of wealth.

[kaian-a-coel]

I think the whole super military industry is too much. Better armor for our melee infantry, maybe a couple throwing weapons, and stay in the general "skirmish" area. More skill above more stuff.

However, the idea of an Academy is a good one.
Teach our peasants some basic, immediatly useful knowledge, and have classes to find natural skill amongst them.

[Talvara]

I really think we should calm down with the military expansion guys. Considering our relatively low population and point in development we already have a really beefy army with pretty decent equipment, if anything we should simply be focusing on training them.

I think we need to stop expanding into various industries and focus expanding the industries we already *have*, y'know, the figurative (and literal) gold mine we have in our back yard. Even beyond that now, we need to create better living arrangements for our people so we can support a higher population, so that we can actually do some of the things we want to do later, be that military or economic.

On the idea of libraries... maybe a little ambitious, but i am fully in support of using a little of our wealth to purchase a small collection of written knowledge, it's something we've sought out in the past but that never panned out. A fully fledged library isn't really worth it right now, but having some books with useful applications would be nice.

I also think we should noble up our estate a bit, get some furnishings and such, the minimum of the trappings of wealth.

I agree, lets go easy on the military juice. I know the count is a big threat still, but we've got good allies and connections to the duke to back us up if it comes to that. Military action simply isnt an option for Count Foles, he might try a few more assassination attempts though so we shouldn't let our guard down.

about the library, Amassing books will take a long time anyway, so we really cant do more than start with a small library.

about the estate, I really want Marna to feel at home. we wouldn't want her to grow homesick or anything.
I'd like to have the falcon mew I mentioned earlier built for her as a 'welcome home' surprise when she finally moves in.

[Mlamlah]

I really think we should calm down with the military expansion guys. Considering our relatively low population and point in development we already have a really beefy army with pretty decent equipment, if anything we should simply be focusing on training them.

I think we need to stop expanding into various industries and focus expanding the industries we already *have*, y'know, the figurative (and literal) gold mine we have in our back yard. Even beyond that now, we need to create better living arrangements for our people so we can support a higher population, so that we can actually do some of the things we want to do later, be that military or economic.

On the idea of libraries... maybe a little ambitious, but i am fully in support of using a little of our wealth to purchase a small collection of written knowledge, it's something we've sought out in the past but that never panned out. A fully fledged library isn't really worth it right now, but having some books with useful applications would be nice.

I also think we should noble up our estate a bit, get some furnishings and such, the minimum of the trappings of wealth.

I agree, lets go easy on the military juice. I know the count is a big threat still, but we've got good allies and connections to the duke to back us up if it comes to that. Military action simply isnt an option for Count Foles, he might try a few more assassination attempts though so we shouldn't let our guard down.

about the library, Amassing books will take a long time anyway, so we really cant do more than start with a small library.

about the estate, I really want Marna to feel at home. we wouldn't want her to grow homesick or anything.
I'd like to have the falcon mew I mentioned earlier built for her as a 'welcome home' surprise when she finally moves in.

Sounds pretty good to me, we could also have a few sets of those falcon hunting gloves made, i'm sure she has some but the sentiment couldn't hurt.

During our correspondence by letter i think we should ascertain what she likes in her daily life, so that we can figure out what we need to get her to help her live comfortably.

[Urist McDwarfFortress]

We should probably visit Marna at least once a month, now that we're engaged. She doesn't live that far away, right? Less than a day's ride?

[stabbymcstabstab]

I thought she was staying here till the wedding?

[Mlamlah]

Nope, that would be improper. She's writing to us weekly.

[Gotdamnmiracle]

Well, technically, unless we really ARE going for mounted archers, there are no real advantages to have foot archers wielding composite bows(which recurve bows technically ARE) compared to longbows. Both could shoot arrows with a similar force(the only real difference being draw weights and lengths of the bows), and composite bows take MUCH longer to make compared to longbows-plus requiring much more skilled craftsmen(while a longbow typically took about a day to make and a week to cure, a composite bow took a week to craft and MONTHS to cure to allow the glues to dry properly).

Then we will only make a few. We usually only deal in 5s and 10s. Plus we needn't give our foot archers composite bows. It's like producing super armor. Takes a while, low yield, big pay off.

Our country has NEVER seen this type of unit before or rarely uses them. It would be devastating.

[Gotdamnmiracle]

Merh. Fine. I'll slow my roll. What is our alternative then (aside from showering our fiance with gifts)?

[tryrar]

Well, I wasn't advocating any real expansion of our current military, just standardizing training+better bows and throwing weapons, and seeing if any more archers wanna be rangers.

Ok, instead of new town walls(they've been ok for this long after all), yeah lets go with a mews for Marna(and see if her falconer would consult with us on it)

[Gervassen]

Military can't be stressed enough, and our own personal skills can't be stressed enough. Without a battle, there would be no noble house of Stone to begin with. Military is the raison d'etre.

I'm not interested in archers fighting fully from horseback, since that is a difficult skill, but there's no reason not to give all our archers and skirmishers horses. This speeds them up outside of battle at the very least, and gives them mobility on the battlefield as well. The skirmishers can actually be light cavalry of a sort, screening the deployment of our rangers and archers, who travel by horse and deploy on foot.

Archers and Rangers -- 10 man squad
Armor: Brigandine cuirass, Kettlepot helms, leather elsewhere
Arms: Longbows of a 150 lbs draw, 300 yards range, arm-strapped bucklers, and shortswords
Equipment: small fast horses, saddles with holders for longbow and three sheaves of arrows.
Skills: High draw-weight Longbow skills, Woodcraft, Trapping and Ambush, decent hand-to-hand and adequate riding skill   

Skirmishing Light Cavalry -- 5 man squad
Armor: Brigandine and chain
Arms: Spears, ten throwing axes, medium targe
Equipment: Fast light horses
Skills: Above average riding skills, combat riding training, excellent melee, throwing, and shield skill

Support and Engineering -- 1 per 10 soldiers
Armor: leather
Arms: short sword, buckler
Equipment: light horse team on light cart, 5 shovels, 5 axes, 5 10lbs hammers, and thin wooden panels and wooden stakes.
Skills: adequate teamster skills, above-average carpentry and other crafting.

Tactics: The archers are the backbone, the light cavalry skirmishes and delays any forces threatening the archers by skirmishing and harrying from the flanks as the archers rain arrows into the center mass; and the support can pass out equipment to the others and direct them in building improvised pit traps, stakes, barriers, pavises, etc. Given enough time, the force can dig in quite sturdily.

Tell me what you think.

Also, let's not visit Marna, because we want to be an ambitious young nobleman that she dreams about, not her puppydog. Writing is fine.