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[Mlamlah]

Sorry about that.

I forgot about it already.

Well, cities were often more planned that you seem to think. After all, most power was held by the central governing authorities.

I've got London, Paris, Troyes, and Rome itself as examples in my corner. What cities are you packing? Any that you can even name?

Conversely, no matter the quality of those things, no one will move in without housing. Having people commission their own houses isn't only a bad idea from a planning perspective--it's impossible for all but the wealthiest of individuals.
Oh, and we're also proposing good housing. Despite what you are implying you believe, people care about good housing.

Housing is easy enough for hard-working burghers to build themselves. My aunt still owns a victorian style house that my farmer ancestors built with handsaws in the 1800s in a small rural town. It's quite a looker, too. You'd suggest that this is impossible, but many ordinary people in that town did the same thing back then. The houses got made, and you sit there authoritatively saying it isn't possible for middle-class people to build their own homes. People always built their own houses. Public housing is a modern concept.

I really don't want to talk about this, or snide mentions of the failed economic policy known as Keynesianism, or anything else savoring of modern politics.

Alexandria for one, also, i wouldn't know about rome itself, but roman cities used central planning more often than not, as did the byzantines.

I think maybe you are taking this a little too personally, i would suggest you put aside your political opinions and just play the game with us. If part of our discussion offends you you are free to ignore it, no one is forcing you to participate in that part of the debate, but don't try to stop others from discussing a possibility they think is valid.

[kaian-a-coel]

The thing is, we can go through most of the year with an empty treasury. That may change, but for now I prefer an empty treasury and things rolling in as opposed to rolling in gold and things staying empty.

[kahn1234]

.....good point about most effective skirmishers being mounted. I'm still for them though, so we should accelerate our horse buying and breeding program and start creating light cavalry. Light cavalry backed by archers is definitely gonna be devastating if used properly(I don't mean mounted archers since the bows they use would not last all that long in this climate, as has been pointed out and from my own knowledge)

I also agree having the able-bodied men spend an hour or two a day learning a simple pole weapon for emergency defense is a good idea(and that they'll only be for defense and our levy remains the same). However, here's an idea for a weapon for them to learn:Scythes(specifically war scythes). Most of the populace are farmers, so they are already familiar with a scythe, so all they really need to learn is standing in a line and formation fighting

The problem with having an archer/mounted skirmisher only standing army is, it cannot defend. To defend you need strong melee troops in good armour. What would be the point in winning if we cant defend what we have taken?

and scythes are very ineffective military weapons. the Billhook is an awesome weapon. Stick with billhooks. Maybe train them as spearmen too and drill them to make them disciplined. Also, trained them to effectively and quickly cut, sharpen and place wooden stakes in the ground would be good as well.

How about naginatas?
(and "it's japanese" is not a valid counter-argument, as far as we know, there is no such thing in this universe.)

It doesn't exist (in this universe) is a pretty good argument though.

Let's use Halberd's. It's the ultimate weapon. (I'm serious, it can be used as a spear, and axe, a axe on a long pole, and as a standard pole). Also, it has a build in hook to dismount riders.

Edit: Also, the Swiss use it. (And still do, to guard the Vatican)

You know that is basically what a Billhook is? and, as its a farming tool, it is common as all hell and our troops are already accustomed to its weight and general use.


Also, it would seem that if we tried to attract intellectuals, scholars and explorers with ideas it would impress Marna.

[Gervassen]

If part of our discussion offends you you are free to ignore it, no one is forcing you to participate in that part of the debate, but don't try to stop others from discussing a possibility they think is valid.

When a story about a medieval country is in danger of slipping into modern themes, we have a right to be a little concerned. Creating a proletarian utopia would be a real immersion-breaker for me in this time setting. Helping the lower classes a little, yes, but we're in danger of going too far. Much too far. And there are a number of predictable unintended consequences to giving people free housing.

[kahn1234]

If part of our discussion offends you you are free to ignore it, no one is forcing you to participate in that part of the debate, but don't try to stop others from discussing a possibility they think is valid.

When a story about a medieval country is in danger of slipping into modern themes, we have a right to be a little concerned. Creating a proletarian utopia would be a real immersion-breaker for me in this time setting. Helping the lower classes a little, yes, but we're in danger of going too far. Much too far. And there are a number of predictable unintended consequences to giving people free housing.

oh god, medieval sink estates?!?!

council houses.....*shudder*

[Gervassen]

If we get our clothing industry started, we can supply them with free burberry peasant caps, too.

[Origami_Psycho]

Well, cities were often more planned that you seem to think. After all, most power was held by the central governing authorities.

I've got London, Paris, Troyes, and Rome itself as examples in my corner. What cities are you packing? Any that you can even name?

I really don't want to talk about this, or snide mentions of the failed economic policy known as Keynesianism, or anything else savoring of modern politics.

New York.

[kahn1234]

Well, cities were often more planned that you seem to think. After all, most power was held by the central governing authorities.

I've got London, Paris, Troyes, and Rome itself as examples in my corner. What cities are you packing? Any that you can even name?

I really don't want to talk about this, or snide mentions of the failed economic policy known as Keynesianism, or anything else savoring of modern politics.

New York.

New York was a messy mass of buildings before it became what it was today.

[Gervassen]

Additionally, New York was still a wooded isle in any reasonable definition of the "medieval" time period. But I say fine. Let's move forward rather than pick at this issue. Some basic city planning is somewhat anachronistic but okay, but let's not go too far.

[Gervassen]

December is a month where we're indoors, so I'll echo that we spend time with our rangers and get to know them enough to pick a captain. We should include them as our security retinue and companions in many activities, including at the dinner table, almost like huscarls with bows. Since we want to give away free houses, let's guarantee that any ranger of fifteen years service will get a good half-timbered townhouse; and any wife and children of a ranger will be given a stipend if he dies in battle. Let's generate some enthusiasm toward being rangers. A Feroshire ranger should be as close to nobility as a yeoman can dream.

If we're to do some urban planning, then let's do it now while december has shut us indoors with our councillors, and our town is still young. Straight boring streets at 90 degree angles? Tree-lined avenues? Parks? Building codes?

I'm not sure we want to have a large Winter festival and have guests from other towns venturing into the cold and snow drifts for us, but some winter merriment is in order. Let's burnish our image among the peasants and lower-class by holding some bear-baiting, boxing, and dog-fighting competitions during the winter lull in their hard dreary lives. Giving them entertainment is easier than giving them free houses.

Let's contact the Rat and see what's happening there. Maybe we can get some dirt on the wool merchant, or find something that he cares about that (or whom) we can seize in order to turn him double agent.

Those are the only things I can think of right now for December. We're broke, and the weather's bad.

[kahn1234]

I think we should not extensively plan our city layout. Maybe say that all buildings must be at least half brick and not have too much of an overhang of the upper floors over the ground floor and have rows of houses (that dont have to be in a straight line) separated from other rows of houses by a road, to prevent the spread of fire.

Also, make sure there are ample city watch houses (aka police) and fire houses (fire fighters) to deal with any internal problems.

Maybe try to attract the attention of some apothecaries and healers to help keep our people (as well as ourselves and Marna and any kids we have) healthy. We dont want our people or wife dying of disease.

Thirdly, the designation of graveyards and landfill sites might be a good idea. It is a very bad idea to use the River as a waste disposal site (especially if our people bathe in it and we dont have a public bath house as an alternative yet).

[Gervassen]

Decent ideas, especially the apothecaries. Increases our infrastructure for attracting educated skilled workers, too. Probably something that we have to do when we travel in spring, though.

[tryrar]

I agree to the above

[Gotdamnmiracle]

.....good point about most effective skirmishers being mounted. I'm still for them though, so we should accelerate our horse buying and breeding program and start creating light cavalry. Light cavalry backed by archers is definitely gonna be devastating if used properly(I don't mean mounted archers since the bows they use would not last all that long in this climate, as has been pointed out and from my own knowledge)

I also agree having the able-bodied men spend an hour or two a day learning a simple pole weapon for emergency defense is a good idea(and that they'll only be for defense and our levy remains the same). However, here's an idea for a weapon for them to learn:Scythes(specifically war scythes). Most of the populace are farmers, so they are already familiar with a scythe, so all they really need to learn is standing in a line and formation fighting

The problem with having an archer/mounted skirmisher only standing army is, it cannot defend. To defend you need strong melee troops in good armour. What would be the point in winning if we cant defend what we have taken?

and scythes are very ineffective military weapons. the Billhook is an awesome weapon. Stick with billhooks. Maybe train them as spearmen too and drill them to make them disciplined. Also, trained them to effectively and quickly cut, sharpen and place wooden stakes in the ground would be good as well.

How about naginatas?
(and "it's japanese" is not a valid counter-argument, as far as we know, there is no such thing in this universe.)

It doesn't exist (in this universe) is a pretty good argument though.

Let's use Halberd's. It's the ultimate weapon. (I'm serious, it can be used as a spear, and axe, a axe on a long pole, and as a standard pole). Also, it has a build in hook to dismount riders.

Edit: Also, the Swiss use it. (And still do, to guard the Vatican)

You know that is basically what a Billhook is? and, as its a farming tool, it is common as all hell and our troops are already accustomed to its weight and general use.


Also, it would seem that if we tried to attract intellectuals, scholars and explorers with ideas it would impress Marna.

That isn't true, I have been pushing for towers and a stronghold for a while. That way we could hold out and fire arrows at them all day. And Who said we were only going to be archers/mounted skirmishers? We were just training guys in riding. I say we drop some halberdiers from the program and train them in phalanx and provide tower shields. Thus we begin the wall tactics. And if everything goes well we will have mounted archers that can double as swordsmen.

[10ebbor10]

Just as a note, the reason why medieval cities were so disorganised is not because they didn't know how to plan a city. (The romans knew how to do it). But because they'd around a defensive fortification, in a more organic way. Another problem was that the planning of roads was often not organised by the local governement, but by various noble families. Considering we don't have these problems, there's no reason why we can't be structural.

Also, it's not like there weren't any decently organised cities. Several smaller, new cities constructed in peacefull times follow a nice concentric streetplan.

Snip

The shieldwall can't hold itself against a cavalery charge. Besides, in order to get a decent shieldwall you'd need at least 50% of the army to be shieldbearers. That'll tremendously weaken the system.

In effect,   while the phanlax might be better against archery, it'll fail against both infantery and cavalery. There's a reason it died out a long time before.