Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Scoops Novel]

I see a minotaur, legendary everything, and i wonder why in the fuck he's sticking to a maze, let alone why he has such skills or in fact exists. With the whole good and evil thing eventually being scrapped, though i suspect some races might be more inclined then others, shouldn't such creatures be much more complicated and interesting then they are now? Sure, i don't expect city's full of minotaurs and giants, but you'd think that a few towns and villages wouldn't be beyond them, and surely they'd be a likely mercenary race, what with all that lovely free armour to complement their natural abilities. Take werewolves as another example. If your settlement is completely surrounded by undead, monsters and demons all round, surely a bite which you'll heal from anyway doesn't look so bad now does it? Particularly with werewolves and vampires being developed beyond their current point with more randomness in the mix, not immediately declaring always chaotic evil might be an idea.

Of course, we have the possibility of irate deity's and such like to act as a potential stopper to this kind of hijinks, but letting people treat their world as if it were actually their world and they had a brain in their skull is something I'm all in favor of.

[Wolfy]

is there anything saying Minotaur's are sociable? Maybe they are not, in just why they are in the maze?
Why would Minotaur's want to live with other Minotaur?  Why assumed Minotaurs like wearing amour? Maybe they believe its for the weak races and they dont need it?
     I'll give you the vampire thing, how ever that's ONLY if he decides to make vampires "mindless beast" (in terms of needing blood) or civilized people. Both work, but you need to pick one and stick to it, or divide them in a way that is clear. I.E this one blood line is the "feral" ones, more stronger, but cant control and the other is more civilized.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Semi- and megabeasts don't really do all they should. Aside from randomly killing people and maybe stealing morsels of food or trinkets smaller than the tips of their toes, they don't do anything. Where are rocs raiding herds of cattle, dragons demanding tribute, hydras lurking in sewers, bronze colossi...okay, they're probably fine the way they are.

The biggest problem with a "society" of semimegabeasts is numbers. There's a couple dozen per world, scattered over race and continent. If more than three or four minotaurs came together, that would be surprising. However, I could easily see them taking over groups of lesser peoples, especially minotaurs. (Minotaurs always struck me as being cunning, regardless of their intelligence. Their inspiration lived in a labyrinth and managed to avoid getting lost as he hunted several Athenian teenagers. As in, people from the city named after the Goddess of Wisdom.) At that point, in larger worlds, some minotaurs might hear of each other and meet up. Imagine a minotaur heading a goblin nation and one reigning over a dwarven kingdom uniting their holdings...
Cyclopes, ettins, and giants could do roughly the same things, of course. I imagine they'd mostly be a bit less effective, though. Cyclopes might be craftsmen more than leaders; ettins would probably argue with themselves, leading to the amusing case of factions following each of the ettin's heads; and giants would be hungry and dumb. (They're big enough to squash minotaurs and easily wrestle the other semimegabeasts to death and are bigger than hydras. They could use a nerf to make them semimegabeasts.)
Ninja'd, of course.

is there anything saying Minotaur's are sociable? Maybe they are not, in just why they are in the maze?

The original Minotaur was one-of-a-kind and imprisoned there. DF minotaurs? Who knows. Maybe they like living in mazes.

Why would Minotaur's want to live with other Minotaur?

Why do humans want to live with other humans? Oh, and the apostrophe is for possessive nouns and contractions only.

Why assumed Minotaurs like wearing amour? Maybe they believe its for the weak races and they dont need it?

They're supposed to be armed and armored to make up for the fact that they're just over 1/40th the size of the other semimegabeasts. Also, they're smarter than said other beasts. Minotaurs aren't realy the "Honor Before Reason" type the way I see them. They're smart enough to realize that horns and size don't mean much against solid steel.

I'll give you the vampire thing, how ever that's ONLY if he decides to make vampires "mindless beast" (in terms of needing blood) or civilized people. Both work, but you need to pick one and stick to it, or divide them in a way that is clear. I.E this one blood line is the "feral" ones, more stronger, but cant control and the other is more civilized.

Why? Why can't there be a middle ground?

[Scoops Novel]

Yes, Cyclopes should be Bad Ass craftsmen. You know, I'd also like to see that whole forging weapons for the gods thing developed, in combination with the gods duking it out, of course. Dwarves and cyclopes should probably have an occasionally friendly rivalry in fact :L.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Friendly? Well, at times.

...I just had an image of dwarves and cyclopes creative bronze colossi as part of their rivalry.

[Scoops Novel]

Learning how to mine up...

[Neonivek]

To me Semimegabeasts shouldn't be numberous enough to be able to form entire civs with just themselves.

Though I have no objection to them joining civs, forming their own with other creatures, or anything else. (as well I expect some day they will have reproduction).

But Great is right, there are so very few things Megabeasts do right now that will change in the future.

[GreatWyrmGold]

To me Semimegabeasts shouldn't be numberous enough to be able to form entire civs with just themselves.

Although I can see bands of semimegabeasts and other powerful critters...say, a dragon, a couple minotaurs, a giant, and some ogres...that would be neat.

Though I have no objection to them joining civs, forming their own with other creatures, or anything else. (as well I expect some day they will have reproduction).

I think they already do. The reproduction part, I mean.

But Great is right, there are so very few things Megabeasts do right now that will change in the future.

Just to make sure, you mean "there are so very few things Megabeasts do right now; that will change in the future," right, and not "there are so very few things Megabeasts do right now, that will change in the future," right?

[Neonivek]

The one where they WILL change in the future.

Thanks for assuming I meant the better one >_<

Although I can see bands of semimegabeasts and other powerful critters...say, a dragon, a couple minotaurs, a giant, and some ogres...that would be neat

To me once they start to form large civilisations they stop being semimegabeasts by definition and start to become a "Monsterous Race".

Mind you this is just a loose definition in my head.

[GreatWyrmGold]

The one where they WILL change in the future.

Thanks for assuming I meant the better one >_<

It made more sense, was what I said, and I try to think the best of people who have shown me more than the worst.

Although I can see bands of semimegabeasts and other powerful critters...say, a dragon, a couple minotaurs, a giant, and some ogres...that would be neat

To me once they start to form large civilisations they stop being semimegabeasts by definition and start to become a "Monsterous Race".

Mind you this is just a loose definition in my head.

To me, the designation of (semi)megabeast is more about power and rarity than organization.
In addition, I don't see civilizations as a bunch of people who work together, but rather a large, self-propagating organization which exerts notable influence over its and neighboring regions. The suggested band may fulfill the influence requirement, but none of the others.
So...yeah. We disagree here.

[Neonivek]

To me, the designation of (semi)megabeast is more about power and rarity than organization

I'd agree with you but the game really sticks to these definitions.

There are creatures as powerful or more powerful then them who do not qualify. Quite a few who bring much more terror in an adventurer then any of them.

A Megabeast is in essence a giant powerful monster. A powerful Vampire won't ever be one (he may be a power though).

Mind you forget thematics since Megabeast and Semimegabeast are game mechanics that are not supported by any ingame text.

A Megabeast is any creature that uses the megabeast mechanics and a Semimegabeast uses semimegabeast mechanics. Powerful beasts (like the Nightwing) exist but are not semimegabeasts because they do not partake in the same activities.

Likewise powerful creatures like Clowns and Cave Dragons exist but lack the Megabeast activity.

A civilisation of Giants do not act like semimegabeasts anymore they act like a civilisation.

Mind you I guess it would be saying something if starting a civ actually made the barbaric giants more docile as they actually have holdings they wish to protect and farmland to till.

So I guess what I mean to say is that forming large civilisations of semimegabeasts should be the exception and not the rule. Something that stands out.

Especially since not much in the game could ever take a city of giants.

[GreatWyrmGold]

To me, the designation of (semi)megabeast is more about power and rarity than organization

I'd agree with you but the game really sticks to these definitions.

Really/

There are creatures as powerful or more powerful then them who do not qualify. Quite a few who bring much more terror in an adventurer then any of them.

I doubt this. Anyways, gauging power isn't easy in DF.

A Megabeast is in essence a giant powerful monster. A powerful Vampire won't ever be one (he may be a power though).

Exactly. Megabeasts are massive, unique or rare monsters of great power. Vampires? Mortals with some special features.

Mind you forget thematics since Megabeast and Semimegabeast are game mechanics that are not supported by any ingame text.

And those "mechanics" are making them rare. And sometimes worshipped as gods, for the megas.

A Megabeast is any creature that uses the megabeast mechanics and a Semimegabeast uses semimegabeast mechanics. Powerful beasts (like the Nightwing) exist but are not semimegabeasts because they do not partake in the same activities.

Nightwings aren't particularly powerful, nor are they notably rare.

Likewise powerful creatures like Clowns and Cave Dragons exist but lack the Megabeast activity.

As well as the megabeast rarity.

A civilisation of Giants do not act like semimegabeasts anymore they act like a civilisation.
Mind you I guess it would be saying something if starting a civ actually made the barbaric giants more docile as they actually have holdings they wish to protect and farmland to till.

Agreed, but you're moving the goalposts. A half a dozen giants isn't a civilization, it's a band or a gang.

So I guess what I mean to say is that forming large civilisations of semimegabeasts should be the exception and not the rule. Something that stands out.
Especially since not much in the game could ever take a city of giants.

Agreed, but again you're moving the goalposts.
The suggestion was not, "LOL let's make semimegabeasts have civilizations!" It was "Semimegabeasts, when they interact, should be able to form civilizations."

[Neonivek]

I am not mistaking anything you are saying.

I am speaking of their frequency.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Ah.

I agree, increasing the frequency of semi/megabeasts to the point they form cities at the start of worldgen makes them not "really" semi/megabeasts anymore. Changing their behavior, though, does not. That's really all this suggestion is talking about.

[Carp McDwarfEater]

To me Semimegabeasts shouldn't be numberous enough to be able to form entire civs with just themselves.

Although I can see bands of semimegabeasts and other powerful critters...say, a dragon, a couple minotaurs, a giant, and some ogres...that would be neat.

I can't. I could see semi/megabeasts of the same race forming groups, but not a bunch of bloodthirsty monsters with next to nothing in common.