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[Neonivek]

A troll is someone who intentionally trolls

You just used the word in the definition. O_O

[Wolfy]

I have to say this, troll means what ever the hell who ever says it wants it to mean, or should I tell you how many words you use now days that are "used wrong" call a person who likes the same sex gay? EHHHHH wrong, gay means happy

etc

meanings change, troll has changed, its part of life, just like whats "rock music" changes so dose this

Troll means anymore things now, and no amount of "saying other wise" is going to change it


*this post could be consider trolling to some

[Scelly9]

I have to say this, troll means what ever the hell who ever says it wants it to mean, or should I tell you how many words you use now days that are "used wrong" call a person who likes the same sex gay? EHHHHH wrong, gay means happy

Definition of GAY
1
a : happily excited : merry <in a gay mood>
b : keenly alive and exuberant : having or inducing high spirits <a bird's gay spring song>
2
a : bright, lively <gay sunny meadows>
b : brilliant in color
3
: given to social pleasures; also : licentious
4
a : homosexual <gay men>
b : of, relating to, or used by homosexuals <the gay rights movement> <a gay bar>

[Loud Whispers]

I have to say this, troll means what ever the hell who ever says it wants it to mean, or should I tell you how many words you use now days that are "used wrong"

Yes
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113517.msg3837515#msg3837515

call a person who likes the same sex gay? EHHHHH wrong, gay means happy

Archaic meaning

Troll means anymore things now, and no amount of "saying other wise" is going to change it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictionary

*this post could be consider trolling to some

[Wolfy]

Archaic meaning

There is no set rule on when its "right or wrong"
troll could mean anything by that logic, you cant just say "well gay can mean gay causes that the old way but troll MUST mean this"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictionary

You do know the definition for "troll" was not even in there for a while, and it took forever for gay to change dictionary wise to  what it is now right?

Even then half of the English language is "wrong" by the dictionary, very few pep ole speak "correct English" if you go by that and in this case majority win
makes that moot
my point is what trolling is or is not, it changing just like gay soon it too will be in the vein of it

If the dictionary says paper means brick and socity at large dont, socity at large wins since thats when it MATTERS
for exsample
"dope"
"cool"
"stupid"
"gay"

All of these at one time or another where NOT in the dictionary in the form that the majority of people used them, but the book, no matter how much you want it to is not the final say, unless I go get one form the 1800's would that still work? what about the 1940's?
heck even the 1990's has a lot of changes, words change a lot, more so in English, they are ALLOWED to, and just cause the dictionary has not updated yet (it takes forever in most cases) don't make the saying invalid
word meanings are abstract, and the English langue some how takes that to a whole new level, in five years cool could mean dumb but the dictionary wont show that for another ten

[fqllve]

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113517.msg3837515#msg3837515

I know this is completely off topic, but you linked the post so!

A country isn't just an enclosure, but it's also a geographical location. Therefore both into and to would be correct in that case. Technically it would depend on the sense of "get" you are describing. If you are talking about the travel itself, then you would most likely use to, but if you are talking about access through customs or immigration then you would say into. The preposition you use changes the sense of the verb.


Anyway, back on topic. Normally I'd agree with Wolfy, because I generally don't like to mandate usage, but troll is a very useful word for the behavior and there really isn't anything else to describe it that isn't like... sentence length, while there are plenty of other words to describe jerks over the internet, so it seems fair to ask that people keep trolling to mean actual trolling.

Not likely to happen though.

[Jelle]

I think you can pretty much extend the definition of troll to "anyone someone doesn't like on the internet", in the case of most forum goers anyway. There's the 'genuine trolls' and then there's people called trolls by butthurt twats.

[Wolfy]

To me a troll is someone who goes on the a forum to bug and or annoy, in ANYWAY possible. I don't expect any one to follow that  but the point is that I think the qualifications for a troll are such and such just as guy above me has Another way

its kind of like what makes someone a jerk, some would put being blunt, I how ever dont.

[fqllve]

Yeah but you can just call people jerks. Whereas actual trolling can pretty much only be describe otherwise as: pretending to believe something just to get a rise out of someone. Sometimes you can say flame-baiting, most of the time you can, but not all trolling is trying to make people angry. You can troll to make people confused, make them laugh, make them feel awkward, or provoke any kind of emotion. I guess another way you could say it then would be something like surreptitious provocation or ironic provocation, but I mean, why should we have to use a cumbersome and rather obtuse phrase when the word trolling perfectly evokes what's going on through it's source (ie fishing)?

Most of the time I'm perfectly ok with linguistic change, it happens and you have to deal with. In this case, though, it kind of sucks, because trolling is an interesting phenomenon and now there's basically no word to describe it even though their once was, because its meaning has been way too diluted.

There's nothing really to do about it, I don't think, but it does suck.

[Loud Whispers]

Archaic meaning

There is no set rule on when its "right or wrong"

*Language and definitions. The invention of the dictionary was to stop the mutation of English into becoming a large mass of incomprehensible stolen words and words that don't mean what they really mean.

troll could mean anything by that logic, you cant just say "well gay can mean gay causes that the old way but troll MUST mean this"

*This isn't logic. You brought up gay. English has changed during the past 400 years. Troll means that; it is however incorrectly applied to mean every nonsensical annoyance, this is detrimental to actually identifying real cases of trolling, especially where trolling can be a ban-able offence on most forums. Rendering a great descriptive word into a jug of watered down water. This means no two persons rarely have a singular definition or general concensus on what a word means - at which the word becomes useless or just an every day colloquial euphemism. Such a waste for one of the few great words internet culture has invented.

HOW EPIC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictionary

You do know the definition for "troll" was not even in there for a while, and it took forever for gay to change dictionary wise to  what it is now right?

And lexicons spend a while debating the uses of words and if they'll stay before adding them, which is why some become archaic and some get added. I don't see the issue in saying words that have just been spawned from the deep depths of R'leyh have been created.

Even then half of the English language is "wrong" by the dictionary, very few pep ole speak "correct English"

*Then they're probably not speaking correct English.

my point is what trolling is or is not, it changing just like gay soon it too will be in the vein of it

That is my point too! Minus the changing part. Because changing it to mean annoyance from actual trolling is rather silly, and damn useless if not detrimental.

*EDIT
Fixed quote boxes

[Wolfy]

Yeah but you can just call people jerks. Whereas actual trolling can pretty much only be describe otherwise as: pretending to believe something just to get a rise out of someone. Sometimes you can say flame-baiting, most of the time you can, but not all trolling is trying to make people angry. You can troll to make people confused, make them laugh, make them feel awkward, or provoke any kind of emotion. I guess another way you could say it then would be something like surreptitious provocation or ironic provocation, but I mean, why should we have to use a cumbersome and rather obtuse phrase when the word trolling perfectly evokes what's going on through it's source (ie fishing)?

the world Gay, did the same thing, instead of saying "he is so Gay" you now say "he is so happy", there ARE other words for trolling we just have to make them up\ change them, heck we already DO. baiter, attrition seeker, his whole entire list etc.

I see nothing that makes troll any more unique the other words that where changed.

I dont see how its an interesting phenomenon, its people either being jerks or trying to get noticed, that's happen since the dawn of time

*Language and definitions. The invention of the dictionary was to stop the mutation of English into becoming a large mass of incomprehensible stolen words and words that don't mean what they really mean.

Cept the dictionary it self already did that, compare words form now form before, it changes words form what they mean to what they dont mean, its doing the very thing i'm saying you should do, adapt with the times, come to the conclusion that the definition of troll has changed

So the dictionary ttys to stop something that it it self dose? (or at least helps) if it wanted to present words form being used for other things then it would not change words, but it dose

That is my point too! Minus the changing part. Because changing it to mean annoyance from actual trolling is rather silly, and damn useless if not detrimental.

I disagree, what are trolls? Annoyances, what would keeping "trolls" the way you think it should be do? nothing, its 100% useless to fight it, it font make trolls go away, they are still annoying, and it will change anyways no matter how hard you try

Besides lets be honest correct English will never truly be at home on the internet and then you get in to the fact that pop here is soda but not up in north america etc, in the long run don't worry what others think troll means , it will carnage with the next generation and the next and the next

it's possible sometime in the far future that every single word I typed here will be censored as a cuss word, in fact one day troll may be the title of the greatest leader to ever lead the world

So don't worry, troll is not the first one to do it, it wont be the last, and its not unique.

out of cuoristy

Troll works, but would you think trolling is "correct"? It's not in the dictionary (last time I checked)
I dont really "care" about it, but its a question I cant answer

[fqllve]

the world Gay, did the same thing, instead of saying "he is so Gay" you now say "he is so happy", there ARE other words for trolling we just have to make them up\ change them, heck we already DO. baiter, attrition seeker, his whole entire list etc.

Happy and gay are different things and they're both about the same age (appearing in Middle English in their modern senses). Gay implies exuberance and frivolity, happy is the more neutral term. Gay still means that, by the way, it just also means a homosexual man or relating to homosexuality now.

Nothing on that list describes trolling in the sense of pretending to believe something you don't to provoke someone. Baiter might work, attention seeker absolutely doesn't and while many trolls are attention seekers all attention seekers are certainly not trolls.

I dont see how its an interesting phenomenon, its people either being jerks or trying to get noticed, that's happen since the dawn of time

It's a specific and devious form of being a jerk though, and it hasn't really come to prominence like it has until the rise of the internet, because it's much harder to fool someone into believing you think something you don't when they can see your body language and hear your voice, also there are many more deterrents to making people angry in real life. People didn't really start trying to get a rise out of others until they could do it near-consequence-free. Maybe you aren't interested in unique behavior patterns, but I sure am.

[Loud Whispers]

I dont see how its an interesting phenomenon, its people either being jerks or trying to get noticed, that's happen since the dawn of time

No.

*Language and definitions. The invention of the dictionary was to stop the mutation of English into becoming a large mass of incomprehensible stolen words and words that don't mean what they really mean.

Cept the dictionary it self already did that, compare words form now form before

What you find in the dictionary is an alphabetically ordered list of words and their definitions, of which all of that language follows the same meanings.

it changes words from what they mean to what they don't mean

I don't speak for dictionaries of other English variants but this is entirely the opposite of a dictionary.

its doing the very thing i'm saying you should do, adapt with the times, come to the conclusion that the definition of troll has changed

*The definition of troll is a very recent creation in the last decade. You seem to have gone from saying what "your" definition is to what THE definition is. Which is wrong on so many levels.

That is my point too! Minus the changing part. Because changing it to mean annoyance from actual trolling is rather silly, and damn useless if not detrimental.

I disagree, what are trolls? Annoyances, what would keeping "trolls" the way you think it should be do?

troll could mean anything by that logic, you cant just say "well gay can mean gay causes that the old way but troll MUST mean this"

*This isn't logic. You brought up gay. English has changed during the past 400 years. Troll means that; it is however incorrectly applied to mean every nonsensical annoyance, this is detrimental to actually identifying real cases of trolling, especially where trolling can be a ban-able offence on most forums. Rendering a great descriptive word into a jug of watered down water. This means no two persons rarely have a singular definition or general concensus on what a word means - at which the word becomes useless or just an every day colloquial euphemism. Such a waste for one of the few great words internet culture has invented.

HOW EPIC

It is a waste of language.

why should we have to use a cumbersome and rather obtuse phrase when the word trolling perfectly evokes what's going on through it's source (ie fishing)?

Most of the time I'm perfectly ok with linguistic change, it happens and you have to deal with. In this case, though, it kind of sucks, because trolling is an interesting phenomenon and now there's basically no word to describe it even though their once was, because its meaning has been way too diluted.

nothing, its 100% useless to fight it, it font make trolls go away, they are still annoying, and it will change anyways no matter how hard you try

Irony.

What you have here is the questioning of morality, the uses and abuses of anonymity and activism of a sort never before recorded in history, done by ordinary people. You've generalized and this is inadequate as a definition and barely even functional. It brushes away one large impact internet culture has made on the real world in a way that is clearly never going to be seen in a neutral or objective way, as the end goal is not always even to get a reaction.
This is trolling.

Or you know, you can just call them jerks and try to forget about it, BECAUSE IT'S USELESS TO FIGHT THE NATURE OF MAAAAAAAAN.

[Wolfy]

What you find in the dictionary is an alphabetically ordered list of words and their definitions, of which all of that language follows the same meanings.

Except you dont, because words change to fact and the dictionary don't keep up, i mean look at the worlds they have JUST ADDED form short hand text like lol and what not

that has been around since BEFORE texting, even as far back as short handing letters and it JUST got added

It's not a very good source of whats "proper" English because they don't add what people use, and what the people use, in the end is all that matters, they could of stated with the first version uf the English langue, and how useful would that book be now? not at all

you may talk right in your mind but to every one else, which is what matters in the terms of a language
you would be wrong.

*The definition of troll is a very recent creation in the last decade. You seem to have gone from saying what "your" definition is to what THE definition is. Which is wrong on so many levels.

Hacker was not even around for a decade before it chnaged its meaning, nothing says a definition has to wait X amount of years to change

also its not the last decade, trolling was used in the early 90's, no where near as wide spread granted.





Irony.

What you have here is the questioning of morality, the uses and abuses of anonymity and activism of a sort never before recorded in history, done by ordinary people. You've generalized and this is inadequate as a definition and barely even functional. It brushes away one large impact internet culture has made on the real world in a way that is clearly never going to be seen in a neutral or objective way, as the end goal is not always even to get a reaction.

Your assuming your definitions is still valid, if for what ever reason the dentition of trolling turned to fishing for cats, then that means the act of trolling is fishing for cats. there is no reason to say "trolling end goal is X" because the definition changes, right now a troll is someone who annoys, is it "wrong":? no not really, it CANT be wrong, you can disagree with it but its going to change anyways 


This is trolling.

Or you know, you can just call them jerks and try to forget about it, BECAUSE IT'S USELESS TO FIGHT THE NATURE OF MAAAAAAAAN.

Form where I'm standing this is the best bet, becuse after all, trolling it self may of started out as something 100% diffident.



also just so you know trolling was CHANCED form a form of fishing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(angling)

[Loud Whispers]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What you find in the dictionary is an alphabetically ordered list of words and their definitions, of which all of that language follows the same meanings.

Except you dont, because words change to fact and the dictionary don't keep up, i mean look at the worlds they have JUST ADDED form short hand text like lol and what not

that has been around since BEFORE texting, even as far back as short handing letters and it JUST got added

It's not a very good source of whats "proper" English because they don't add what people use, and what the people use, in the end is all that matters, they could of stated with the first version uf the English langue, and how useful would that book be now? not at all

you may talk right in your mind but to every one else, which is what matters in the terms of a language
you would be wrong.

*The definition of troll is a very recent creation in the last decade. You seem to have gone from saying what "your" definition is to what THE definition is. Which is wrong on so many levels.

Hacker was not even around for a decade before it chnaged its meaning, nothing says a definition has to wait X amount of years to change

also its not the last decade, trolling was used in the early 90's, no where near as wide spread granted.





Irony.

What you have here is the questioning of morality, the uses and abuses of anonymity and activism of a sort never before recorded in history, done by ordinary people. You've generalized and this is inadequate as a definition and barely even functional. It brushes away one large impact internet culture has made on the real world in a way that is clearly never going to be seen in a neutral or objective way, as the end goal is not always even to get a reaction.

Your assuming your definitions is still valid, if for what ever reason the dentition of trolling turned to fishing for cats, then that means the act of trolling is fishing for cats. there is no reason to say "trolling end goal is X" because the definition changes, right now a troll is someone who annoys, is it "wrong":? no not really, it CANT be wrong, you can disagree with it but its going to change anyways 


This is trolling.

Or you know, you can just call them jerks and try to forget about it, BECAUSE IT'S USELESS TO FIGHT THE NATURE OF MAAAAAAAAN.

Form where I'm standing this is the best bet, becuse after all, trolling it self may of started out as something 100% diffident.



also just so you know trolling was CHANCED form a form of fishing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(angling)

I can't actually understand most of your post. But if it's what I think it is, and you're arguing to deliberately change the meaning of a word to an incorrect definition because you just can, leave this thread.