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Author Topic: The Hobbit  (Read 54960 times)

LordBucket

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2012, 10:43:27 pm »

I can also see them expanding on some things that were skimmed over in the book,
like Elrond's house and most combat scenes.

That's my guess. Just watched a preview and I kept seeing Galadriel. I don't remember her being in the Hobbit at all. Also looks like they might be revisioning the dwarves as Gimli-esque axe-wielding warriors rather than helpless, greedy, cowardly craftsmen like they were in the book. If so, that will immensely change the character of the story. I also expect that the war of five armies will probably encompass most of the third movie rather than being a brief philosophical ramble from Bilbo hiding behind a rock right up until he gets knocked unconscious. But that too will change the character of the story a lot.

Heron TSG

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2012, 10:51:51 pm »

From a non-spoilery (as if anyone in this thread hasn't read the books anyway) review I found, it turns out that they're padding it a bit with some stuff from The Book of Lost Tales that was happening in the background with Gandalf, Radagast, the Necromancer, and company. So that could be neat.
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Sir Finkus

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2012, 11:09:46 pm »

I'm hoping to find a place that shows it in the 48fps format.  I love the hobbit, but I'm honestly more interested in that than I am the movie itself.

SalmonGod

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2012, 03:21:47 am »

Quote
Personally I don't relate to how much reverence they're given as it is. The LotR books haven't aged well. The fantasy genre has evolved, and I daresay...improved over the past sixty years those those books were published. I enjoyed Fellowship well enough, but the Two Towers bored me. It was like 100 pages of interesting things happening and 300 pages of people walking.

Quote
Return of the King was more annoying, though, in that the dramatic final confrontation occurs about halfway through, and the rest of the book is a fight against the ultimate bad guy's junior partner and some chump back at the Shire.

Quote
This. The way he was killed off in the movie was an improvement over the original.


The problem with all of these quotes is that they're assuming Tolkien wrote purely for entertainment value, and that anything that enhanced your entertainment is an improvement, thus not disrespectful.

1.  Tolkien was very old-fashioned and wrote from a much slower paced cultural perspective.  I find conversion of his writing style to that of a pop culture action flick for the sake of mass audience appeal to be very disrespectful.

2.  Despite popular typecasting of his work as juvenile 'shining goodness vs ultimate evil' type fantasy, I find it to be full of deep, rich themes that were either ignored or completely inverted by the movies.  For instance, the way Gollum dies in RotK is extremely important.  It makes a very clear statement that good does not triumph over evil.  Evil defeats itself by its own nature. 

It gets very philosophical if you read The Silmarillion and find that on a grander scale, good and evil are equally destructive forces when they interact with each other, but their interaction is what makes the world interesting.  In the creation myth, Morgoth's attempts to disrupt the song of creation are what create all the dynamics of nature that make it beautiful.  Evil is the instigator of conflicts, but "Good's" equivalent responses to challenge are what result in the most destruction, beginning with Feanor who was very much an anti-hero.  Most participants are people who only get dragged into the conflicts and end up choosing sides by circumstance.  The fourth age of Middle-Earth is when almost all magic and wonder has left the world and the influence of past conflicts and Morgoth's lingering will diffused into the land have left all remaining morality very neutral and grey.  I think it's aged extremely well, but most people who read it have been influenced first by modern pop fantasy that tries to hard to emulate it.  They take one look at protagonists battling hordes of orcs and think "juvenile hero fantasy".

3.  Tolkien's explicity stated goals need to be taken into consideration, also.  He really didn't write for entertainment value.  He was a scholar of ancient mythologies and language.  He mourned that the culture of his day had no comparable mythological traditions, and so he set about writing one.  His entire goal was to develop a richly detailed ancient history, with its own abstract creation myths and epic parables similar to those of Greek and Nordic lore, and he did it from a scholarly perspective, not a popular entertainment perspective.  Considering he and C.S. Lewis together generated one of the two major genres of modern speculative fiction, along with most of its major staple tropes, I think succeeded in his goals in many respects and deserves some reverence for it.

Quote
That's easy to say if you didn't grow up with the books or if they weren't the first fantasy you read.

This, too.  The Hobbit was the first novel I ever read, at the age of 6.  Tolkien's work hasn't just been entertaining for me, but a major influence on who I am.  It's quite dear to me.
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Glowcat

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2012, 06:30:09 am »

Just got back. As expected it plays with the strengths of the LotR movies and clearly each movie won't be self-contained, with a lot of unresolved stuff being introduced in the first part. It really felt like an adventure which means it deviated a lot from the modern movie formula but in a way that I enjoyed. Hopefully the next two parts come out relatively soon.
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Strife26

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2012, 06:58:06 am »

*cough* My own impression in the link *cough*



I would like to see it in 48, though. I'll have to find a nearbyish theater that'll show it and some free time. Probably end up doing it during Christmas.


I certainly thought that it was more than worthwhile to see.
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JoshuaFH

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2012, 08:10:23 am »

Alright, I just want to ask, what's the Hobbit about anyway? Is it related to LOTR?

/OnlyseenthelastLOTRmovie
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Darvi

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2012, 08:12:35 am »

It's the prequel.

Or rather, LotR is a series of sequels to the Hobbit.
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Scoops Novel

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2012, 08:13:22 am »

TELL HIM NOTHING- damn you ninja. Call my samurai.
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SalmonGod

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2012, 08:14:39 am »

It's about Bilbo -- how the ring came into his possession and how he became the adventurous hobbit that he is.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Darvi

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2012, 08:16:06 am »

And about a bunch of dorfs who for some reason are absolutely incapable of staying out of trouble.
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Wayward Device

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2012, 08:49:47 am »

Quote
Personally I don't relate to how much reverence they're given as it is. The LotR books haven't aged well. The fantasy genre has evolved, and I daresay...improved over the past sixty years those those books were published. I enjoyed Fellowship well enough, but the Two Towers bored me. It was like 100 pages of interesting things happening and 300 pages of people walking.

Quote
Return of the King was more annoying, though, in that the dramatic final confrontation occurs about halfway through, and the rest of the book is a fight against the ultimate bad guy's junior partner and some chump back at the Shire.

Quote
This. The way he was killed off in the movie was an improvement over the original.


The problem with all of these quotes is that they're assuming Tolkien wrote purely for entertainment value, and that anything that enhanced your entertainment is an improvement, thus not disrespectful.

1.  Tolkien was very old-fashioned and wrote from a much slower paced cultural perspective.  I find conversion of his writing style to that of a pop culture action flick for the sake of mass audience appeal to be very disrespectful.

2.  Despite popular typecasting of his work as juvenile 'shining goodness vs ultimate evil' type fantasy, I find it to be full of deep, rich themes that were either ignored or completely inverted by the movies.  For instance, the way Gollum dies in RotK is extremely important.  It makes a very clear statement that good does not triumph over evil.  Evil defeats itself by its own nature. 

It gets very philosophical if you read The Silmarillion and find that on a grander scale, good and evil are equally destructive forces when they interact with each other, but their interaction is what makes the world interesting.  In the creation myth, Morgoth's attempts to disrupt the song of creation are what create all the dynamics of nature that make it beautiful.  Evil is the instigator of conflicts, but "Good's" equivalent responses to challenge are what result in the most destruction, beginning with Feanor who was very much an anti-hero.  Most participants are people who only get dragged into the conflicts and end up choosing sides by circumstance.  The fourth age of Middle-Earth is when almost all magic and wonder has left the world and the influence of past conflicts and Morgoth's lingering will diffused into the land have left all remaining morality very neutral and grey.  I think it's aged extremely well, but most people who read it have been influenced first by modern pop fantasy that tries to hard to emulate it.  They take one look at protagonists battling hordes of orcs and think "juvenile hero fantasy".

3.  Tolkien's explicity stated goals need to be taken into consideration, also.  He really didn't write for entertainment value.  He was a scholar of ancient mythologies and language.  He mourned that the culture of his day had no comparable mythological traditions, and so he set about writing one.  His entire goal was to develop a richly detailed ancient history, with its own abstract creation myths and epic parables similar to those of Greek and Nordic lore, and he did it from a scholarly perspective, not a popular entertainment perspective.  Considering he and C.S. Lewis together generated one of the two major genres of modern speculative fiction, along with most of its major staple tropes, I think succeeded in his goals in many respects and deserves some reverence for it.

Quote
That's easy to say if you didn't grow up with the books or if they weren't the first fantasy you read.

This, too.  The Hobbit was the first novel I ever read, at the age of 6.  Tolkien's work hasn't just been entertaining for me, but a major influence on who I am.  It's quite dear to me.

Now I can't help but imagine a bunch of drunken Shield-Danes sitting around listening to a master skald singing the saga of Beowulf, completely ignoring the beautifully complex rhyme scheme, allusions to their rich history, cultural background  and philosophical questions on the nature of humanity and just being all "Get to the bit where he beats Grendel to death with his own arm!", "No, tell us about the sexy queen again, but forget all that rhyming shit, just make her have big boobs!".   
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RedKing

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #42 on: December 14, 2012, 08:56:49 am »

Alright, I just want to ask, what's the Hobbit about anyway? Is it related to LOTR?

/OnlyseenthelastLOTRmovie

.....I have no words.



Man, all the hate on The Two Towers makes baby Jesus cry. That was actually my favorite of the three (and favorite of the three films too). And I would be the biggest freakin' fanboy if they did a film(s) of the Silmarillion.
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XXSockXX

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #43 on: December 14, 2012, 09:05:02 am »

Now I can't help but imagine a bunch of drunken Shield-Danes sitting around listening to a master skald singing the saga of Beowulf, completely ignoring the beautifully complex rhyme scheme, allusions to their rich history, cultural background  and philosophical questions on the nature of humanity and just being all "Get to the bit where he beats Grendel to death with his own arm!", "No, tell us about the sexy queen again, but forget all that rhyming shit, just make her have big boobs!".   

Yeah, I bet they would take that crappy Beowulf movie with CGI Angelina Jolie over their skald any day. But that is why I'm ok with the LotR movies despite being a Tolkien fan, they are relatively kind to the source material for being produced by a film industry that somehow likes to turn every story into "boy meets girl during car chase, random stuff blows up, robots, boy kills big bad and gets girl" no matter if it has any foundation in the book.
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RedKing

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2012, 09:23:59 am »

I literally had tears in my eyes for the first ten minutes of Fellowship of the Ring, when they first show the Shire and Frodo and Gandalf. Because it was so *right*. As movie adaptations go, they did a hell of a job on all three of not butchering the source material.

That's why I'm excited about The Hobbit. They have a track record of not fucking it up.
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Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
Quote from: Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.
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