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[EuchreJack]

The demo for the Adam Ryland (maker of freeware game Extreme Warfare Revenge) game Total Extreme Wrestling 2013 just came out.  Public Beta

The first game in the series is free: Link to Total Extreme Wrestling 2005, freeware by developers.

So what is Total Extreme Wrestling (and it's predecessor, Extreme Warfare Revenge)?  It's a wrestling promotion simulator.  It mainly focuses on the booking of wrestling events, but the player has to hire the wrestlers, schedule the matches, possibly plan angles and storylines, and generally try to make the promotion grow in size.  It's a lot of fun: You can go into the editor and make your own wrestlers, promotions, etc.  You can even chose to work as the owner, which allows you to chose exactly what type of promotion you want to run.  I'd strongly suggest downloading the freeware game if you're interested.  Knowing my audience, at least some of you will be glad you did.  Note it is turn-based (it goes from day to day), as I know that makes a difference to some people.

[EuchreJack]

Ok, I realized that I should probably explain just what is the game Total Extreme Wrestling before going into my general discussion about it.  So, I'll move my thoughts on the latest game here, and put a description in the opening post.  Also going to limit the snark.

Frankly, I'm not impressed with the 2013 version.  I've been a fan of the Total Extreme Warfare series for quite a while.  I have the free one, and I was thinking of getting the new one, the 2013 one, but it seems to cut out more features than it gives.  Granted, the alliance feature is cool, but currently it isn't used, and it really doesn't offer much more than what the player could do before with promotion relationships.

For comparison, check out the 2010 demo linked here.  I'm actually thinking of just buying the 2010 version once they release the 2013 version and lower the price.

It's an expensive series ($35 for the newest game), especially since it's basically a spreadsheet game (static pictures, no graphics).

I'm starting this topic because I'd like some discussion from my fellow forumites.

[ConscriptFive]

The TEW series is an odd beast.  I remember playing the original EWR in the heyday of WWF vs. WCW in the late 1990's, and it's still ultimately the same spreadsheet management game made by a one-man team part-time.  It started as Adam Ryland's Visual Basic hobby project, and its grown up with him as his Visual C# hobby project.  My main gripe is the series completely opaque mechanics buried among loads of simulationist bloat.  As someone who likes spreadsheet management games, the Football/Premier Manager or Out Of the Park (OOP) series are just plain better at roughly the same price point.

I admire what Adam Ryland has done as a part-time, self-published developer in keeping the series going for his entire adult life, but TEW has developed itself into its own niche at this point.  Almost two decades later, the 2013 demo still has no tutorial, yet the game keeps getting more complex.  I find it fascinating for its complexity, yet can't bury the suspicion that somewhere half the mechanics are somehow broken.

[EuchreJack]

I find it fascinating for its complexity, yet can't bury the suspicion that somewhere half the mechanics are somehow broken.

It doesn't help that each version seeks to fix the broken mechanics without much warning.  Which tends to lead to different broken mechanics.  As your comment brings out: Broken mechanics are bad, broken mechanics the user can't easily deciper is much worse.

I'm still a fan of TEW 2005's Sex Appeal trick: You run sex appeal angles with high looks ladies, and those angles will always score very high.  Unfortunately, later versions modified the formula, so I don't know how to replicate this type of booking.  Granted, the C range angles I've gotten are better than other things I've tried, but I wish I knew how to do better with these angles, or even if it was possible to do better (there are many harsh limits in the game code that aren't obvious on first appearance, like the new "everybody wants a downside" in TEW 2013).

EDIT: I'm thinking of running a LP of TEW 2005 to bring more interest to this topic.

[ConscriptFive]

Comparing the 2013 demo to 2010 and 2005,  the interface is definitely way better.  The main gripe was always been just how tedious booking a full event is.  Trying to keep your full roster busy, as well as who has what stats for each match was always painful.  The AI autobooker, and the pre-booker make this much easier.  You can actually focus on your main eventers without getting buried in managing your 20+ midcards and openers.

Though as you pointed out, "Diva" angles are an easy ratings booster.  The one-minute "female warmup" angle is a cheap win, and doesn't check if your hottie is even a wrestler or competing.  When all else fails, bikini contest!  In 2005, I had a regional federation with a weekly 30 min TV show.  The last ten minutes was always a bikini contest... it was at least a letter grade higher than the actual matches every damn time.

Also, TEW has a fairly decent mod community at EW Warehouse.  Particularly worth mentioning is the iDOMINATION (iDOM) mod: the real-world but with the WWE broken up into competing feds.  Be sure to add on the Real World Mod Worker pics if you want to have thumbnails for everybody.

http://www.ewwarehouse.info/mod-index/tew-05-mod-index/

[EuchreJack]

Though as you pointed out, "Diva" angles are an easy ratings booster.  The one-minute "female warmup" angle is a cheap win, and doesn't check if your hottie is even a wrestler or competing.  When all else fails, bikini contest!  In 2005, I had a regional federation with a weekly 30 min TV show.  The last ten minutes was always a bikini contest... it was at least a letter grade higher than the actual matches every damn time.

I've got a question about this: Does posting angles last help any in 2005?  From what I can tell, angles are only good to warm up the crowd, as I thought they didn't affect the rating.

From what I can tell, in later versions the looks stat is modified by the popularity, which keeps Diva angles by unknowns from scoring A* (but they still tend to score C range, which is better than most things in a starting fed).

I like the EW Warehouse, but the modding community lost a lot when Bobinc went offline.

[ConscriptFive]

...and this all goes back to my original point: lots of opaque mechanics that are either counter-intuitive or broken.  The helpfile for TEW05 is mainly all "how-to's" and says virtually nothing on actual game mechanics.  For example, here's what the helpfile says about final rating:

...the Final Rating. This is how good the show was as a whole. It is not an average of all the ratings! It is calculated differently from promotion to promotion, but in all cases the final rating will be more heavily based upon the main event than the opening matches.

...and that's all the helpfile ever says about the key scoring metric.  In other words, the helpfile pretty much refuses to tell you how the game scores itself.You pretty much have to mine their forums for answers.  The unofficial FAQ is particularly helpful:

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10916

There's a mechanic where if there's a substantial drop in quality in a following segment, it amplifies it.  The reason I do the bikini contest last is because it's substantially better than even my main event match (B/B+ vs C-/C).  The last thing you want to do is hurt the rating of the shows's main event, because the helpfile claims it's the major component of the mysterious final rating formula.  End show divas are cheaper and safer than letting my undercard matches on-air.  Those guys are best kept pre-show/post-show, yet still factor in to percent angles vs. matches.  Furthermore, I always run unchained storylines with my divas, so I also get the benefit of a B rated storyline getting reinforced on every show.

As you pointed out, they kinda nerfed looks/sex appeal angles in later edition, but they's still cheap and safe compared to actual matches.  Pay per appearance is for an entire show... you can use a hottie manager to support a match, color commentate, and still do multiple angles all for the same price.  Overness/popularity does build with angles, so if you exploit the hell out of the new girl, she'll get popular eventually.

[EuchreJack]

There's a mechanic where if there's a substantial drop in quality in a following segment, it amplifies it.  The reason I do the bikini contest last is because it's substantially better than even my main event match (B/B+ vs C-/C).  The last thing you want to do is hurt the rating of the shows's main event, because the helpfile claims it's the major component of the mysterious final rating formula.  End show divas are cheaper and safer than letting my undercard matches on-air.  Those guys are best kept pre-show/post-show, yet still factor in to percent angles vs. matches.  Furthermore, I always run unchained storylines with my divas, so I also get the benefit of a B rated storyline getting reinforced on every show.

As you pointed out, they kinda nerfed looks/sex appeal angles in later edition, but they's still cheap and safe compared to actual matches.  Pay per appearance is for an entire show... you can use a hottie manager to support a match, color commentate, and still do multiple angles all for the same price.  Overness/popularity does build with angles, so if you exploit the hell out of the new girl, she'll get popular eventually.

Yeah, I generally just end with the main event.  The cool part about the girls getting over is that you can throw them into matches (managers don't mind being in matches, and certain promotions can get away with lousy matchwork as long as the people are popular).  Prior to the newest version, you literally had no choice but to throw no-talent but popular valets into matches in order to grow as a Women's Entertainment/T&A promotion.  Hence I'm thankful that angles now factor into show score.

Still, the total gutting of the storyline feature is discouraging me from purchasing TEW 2013.  I liked the structure of the old system, although the whole "Catalyst/Support/Subject/Etc." and fixed points tended to cause nothing but headaches.  Just removing the classification of characters in angles would have fixed everything perfectly.

EDIT: By the way, I'm thinking of running an LP of TEW 2005.  Any ideas?

[jester]

can you give us a link for the lets play when it happens?

[EuchreJack]

No problem.  I'll edit the opening post to provide the link to the Let's Play once I get it started, and the Let's Play will contain a link to this thread.

[sambojin]

A good mate of mine (who was a wrestler in a local fed at the time) used to play the hell out of the 2005 and the 2010 version, so I'll have to tell him about this. Is it just bug-fixes, or are there genuinely new mechanics involved?

And for the LP, you could go either way with it. Go for the whole prime-time WWE fed thing, just so the viewers know who the stars are and can relate to it, or pick a small fed to build from the ground up, letting it develop as the story progresses.

[EuchreJack]

There are a few key changes to the mechanics in 2013, the most significant being that event rating is now affected by angles to the degree that the promotion does angles.  So a Sports Entertainment promotion that does 50% angles would see 50% of their event score based upon angles.  It really balances out promotions with lousy wrestlers but good performers.  There are also alliances, so the player can re-create the pre-Wrestlemania territory system.

I'm probably going to pick a smaller federation because it is easier for the audience to follow the entire roster and it is easier to see growth in the promotion.  A regional size promotion might be the best: It's big enough to land a TV deal, but small enough to keep track of the roster.  I'm still deciding which mod to use.

[Kaje]

I always find actually booking the shows to be very tedious indeed, isn't it about time they implemented a feature where you could hire a booker to do that sort of thing for you - with the player able to concentrate more on growing the brand from a business and roster standpoint?

[EuchreJack]

I think there is some sort of auto-booker in the latest version, but I refuse to let go of the control, so I can't say much about it.

The other thing to note is that in normal mode, the player is the booker, so it wouldn't make sense to hire a booker.

[Silent_Thunder]

Went and bought this with sime of my Christmas money, and I've enjoyed it. Right now trying desperatly to claw NYCW up from "Promotion nobody gives a crap about" status. Sadly SWF (the WWE anaolgue) just stole my best wrestler, and the fans aren't too keen on Honest Frank the Used Car Salesman. :/