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[Tierre]

Hello all.

I have been gone for 4 months but at last Pathfinder tabletop RPG let me go to return to DF:) And i am now trying to figure out where the modders thought had gone now in this 4 months. So i got a question now about special stones and their introduction into a world without problems.

For example i will be using things from Masterwork mod as i am looking its RAWs right now (again ).
Meph (and i hope for the answer from him, but i will appreciate any insight so i post it as a new thread not in the MW-mod thread) uses a Violent reaction boulder to simulate accidents in smelting. Some metal ores will give this boulder then being smelted or    alloyed. This boulder has
        [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SOIL_TEMPLATE]
   [SPEC_HEAT:9]
   [IGNITE_POINT:10500]
   [MELTING_POINT:10500]
   [MAT_FIXED_TEMP:10510]
   [BOILING_POINT:10500]
which will make encounter with it in a furnace unpleasant event. And this stone doesn't have a tag ENVIRONMENT which makes it nonexistent in the world (before unpleasant meeting in the furnace of course - it will exist then... for a short but FUNny period of time). Will the fact that it has no environment tag pose any problems and errors in game log? I can't test it (i am at work now.... just don't tell my boss that i am checking DF RAWs at work ).
So far is seems everything is obvious and won't pose problems but then it gets stranger.
Meph uses a second FUNny boulder though - the arsenic poison:
[INORGANIC:ARSENIC_POISON]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:METAL_TEMPLATE]
   [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:arsenic fumes]
   [STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:arsenic]
   [STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:arsenic fumes]
   [DISPLAY_COLOR:0:7:1]   [BUILD_COLOR:0:7:1]
   [SPEC_HEAT:130]
   [MELTING_POINT:9000]
   [BOILING_POINT:9000]
   [SOLID_DENSITY:10000]
   [LIQUID_DENSITY:10000]
   [MOLAR_MASS:207200]
   [IMPACT_YIELD:35000]
   [IMPACT_FRACTURE:42000]
   [IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:760]
   [COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:35000]
   [COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:42000]
   [COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:760] 46
   [TENSILE_YIELD:10000]
   [TENSILE_FRACTURE:12000]
   [TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:63] 16
   [TORSION_YIELD:10000]
   [TORSION_FRACTURE:12000]
   [TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:179]
   [SHEAR_YIELD:10000]
   [SHEAR_FRACTURE:12000]
   [SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:179] 5.6
   [BENDING_YIELD:10000]
   [BENDING_FRACTURE:12000]
   [BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:63]
   [MAX_EDGE:10000]
   [SYNDROME]
        [SYN_VERY_BAD_SYNDROME_HERE_:)]
   [DEEP_SPECIAL]
I try to understand why METAL template is used here (in VIOLENT it was a SOIL template which is just a flavored absorbing STONE template). How will  [METAL_ORE:VIOLENT_REACTION:1] react on the fact that this is SOIL not METAL - will it have any consequences? Also as this thing immidiately evaporates - should i delete all those physical properties from inorganic definition to save FPS or it won't help or it will actually give me some errors and bugs?
And now the actually main queston:) DEEP_SURFACE should always be alone or we will see glitches. But DEEP_SPECIAL can be made to any material and it will make spires. So i see that with this one Meph can have spires of arsenic poison (which is a bad thing) and is it really needed here? If VIOLENT_REACTION is without any whatsoever definition of its location then ARSENIC can be that too?

Yes i know it is really a bad written post:( It is just that a lot of questions are in my mind and i can't seem to write them in a better fashion. Sorry about that.

[Grimlocke]

DEEP_SPECIAL is an enviroment tag, in the sense that it tells that game what to do with it. The way to prevent this from showing up anywhere you dont want to is simply to give it no such tags. This is probabaly why Meph used the soil template, that template only exist because Toady needed stone without the STONE tag.

Not sure if DEEP_SPECIAL actualy has any annoying sideffects like the game making swords out of it for the clown fortress. Possibly it could be used it to prevent forgotten beast showing up with it.

I personaly used a dummy creature for this kind of stuff.

Edit: The only tags you need for this by the way are the fixed temp tag, boiling point tag, gas color tag, and whatever nasty form of death or discomfort you want attached to it. The game doesnt use the rest.

[Tierre]

Well i though so Maybe it was better to delete STONE tag from stone template and add it to stones... could've been easier - less entries is always good. I know that DEEP_SPECIAL actually forms up with minerals - i have used it to introduce into my mods 2 other metals aside from candy. But i am afraid that using it with arsenic poison will leave you with only half potential candy, which is bad in my opinion. You will have only half chances to see the clownes and might miss a circus. That is always a sad thing.

[i2amroy]

Having the DEEP_SPECIAL or DEEP_SURFACE tokens will cause your stones to potentially replace adamantine and slade respectively. If instead you want to just prevent traders from using your mineral a much better option would be to use the [SPECIAL] token, which is automatically implied by DEEP_SPECIAL and DEEP_SURFACE.

And having no environmental tokens is the best way to handle something that you never want to occur in nature, and will not cause any errorlog messages.

[Tierre]

From wiki -
[SPECIAL]    Prevents the material from showing up in certain places. Explicitly set by all evil weather materials and implied by [DEEP_SURFACE] and [DEEP_SPECIAL].
At which places is it forbidden to show more precisely if anyone knows? I just want to better understand how to use SPECIAL tag correctly.
Also if a stone has no environment and can only be produced by workshops - will it be listed in STONES screen to mark it as economic? Or i will have a problem with that and will need to use SPECIAL tag to alleviate this?

[ArKFallen]

From wiki -
[SPECIAL]    Prevents the material from showing up in certain places. Explicitly set by all evil weather materials and implied by [DEEP_SURFACE] and [DEEP_SPECIAL].
At which places is it forbidden to show more precisely if anyone knows? I just want to better understand how to use SPECIAL tag correctly.
Also if a stone has no environment and can only be produced by workshops - will it be listed in STONES screen to mark it as economic? Or i will have a problem with that and will need to use SPECIAL tag to alleviate this?

[SPECIAL] is an inorganic only token (learned because I use plants to hold my mod materials) and anything with it won't appear in stockpile or STONE list materials, trade, or really anywhere outside of where the player creates it (ie reactions/interactions). The material will only be listed as economic if a reaction uses it or it has use tags (WEAPON,AMMO,RANGED,etc). I don't know about enviromentless stone though.

[Tierre]

From wiki -
[SPECIAL]    Prevents the material from showing up in certain places. Explicitly set by all evil weather materials and implied by [DEEP_SURFACE] and [DEEP_SPECIAL].
At which places is it forbidden to show more precisely if anyone knows? I just want to better understand how to use SPECIAL tag correctly.
Also if a stone has no environment and can only be produced by workshops - will it be listed in STONES screen to mark it as economic? Or i will have a problem with that and will need to use SPECIAL tag to alleviate this?

[SPECIAL] is an inorganic only token (learned because I use plants to hold my mod materials) and anything with it won't appear in stockpile or STONE list materials, trade, or really anywhere outside of where the player creates it (ie reactions/interactions). The material will only be listed as economic if a reaction uses it or it has use tags (WEAPON,AMMO,RANGED,etc). I don't know about enviromentless stone though.

You mean it won't show in stockpiles? Or it won't show until you created some of it? Because RAW_ADAMANTINE has implied SPECIAL tag and is on the stockpile list..... though i am not sure if i ever looked for it:( Maybe i am wrong - i rarely played till adamantine stage:(

[i2amroy]

I believe DEEP_SPECIAL specifically allows you to see it in the stockpile list, while the other two do not.

And environmentless stone functions identical to normal stone (showing up in the stockpile list, economic stones list, etc.) in all but two aspects:
1)You will never find it in the environment, so the only way to create it is through reactions
2)Traders will only bring it if they have access to a reaction that creates it. Elsewise they won't have access since it doesn't occur naturally in any of the areas under their sites (or anywhere else either).

[ArKFallen]

I believe DEEP_SPECIAL specifically allows you to see it in the stockpile list, while the other two do not.

DEEP_SPECIAL and DEEP_SURFACE both allow you to see it in the stockpile/stones list while simply SPECIAL (any-materials) won't appear in any of that (ever). If they imply SPECIAL they probably over-ride it as well so you can stockpile and toggle raw adamantine and slade (which I've heard you can still get in vanilla with an exploit).