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[Tack]

Damn. If only Obama had won by a landslide.


(And yes, I am just being facetious for the sake of being the devil's advocate. I have almost no grounding in American Politics, so I've already acceded your point.)

[misko27]

Thjere are 24 states where the republican party has single party control, state legislature and governership. There are only 13 states with total democratic control.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

That's not the point, Tack. Your argument is that it isn't an issue, but it clearly is. The GOP has made major progress in getting states to pass laws making it cruel or difficult to obtain an abortion, Obama's victory notwithstanding.

[Tack]

That's religious impact on a governmental body.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

So then it's an issue. A rather serious one at that.

[Tack]

1. I stated in my textwall that I wasn't bringing religion into it, as most religion is notorious for gender segregation.
2. You can't use 'the abortion debate' as an argument for feminism, as it's a really massive moral issue, and not entirely relevant to the rights of a woman. But I'm also not going to touch on that, as both religion And abortions are really, really flammable subjects.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

It's entirely relevant. You think it is a coincidence that places where abortion is illegal have bad track records in women's rights?

[Hiiri]

Oh wow, I had no idea this forum had so many wanna-be knights in shining armor. (Or perhaps they all just gather in "why don't women like nice guys"-thread.) It's simply dishonest to claim one sex has it worse than the other. You might as well bitch about: "The opposite sex doesn't have to carry testicles/breasts! How UNFAIR is that?! "

One could make an evo-psy argument to why feminists scream "victim" the loudest, however.

[misko27]

Flame War Incoming. All civilians plaese report to the exits. repeat, all citizens please move to the exits.
 
Abandon thread! All un-aligned parties, please move to the nearest exits. This is a full-scale evacuation. Repeat, Abandon Thread!

[Hiiri]

I'm suwwy... I didn't mean to...

[Scelly9]

I'm suwwy... I didn't mean to...

Oh wow, I had no idea this forum had so many wanna-be knights in shining armor.

Uhhuh.

[Forums User Meat Wizard]

Oh wow, I had no idea this forum had so many wanna-be knights in shining armor. (Or perhaps they all just gather in "why don't women like nice guys"-thread.) It's simply dishonest to claim one sex has it worse than the other. You might as well bitch about: "The opposite sex doesn't have to carry testicles/breasts! How UNFAIR is that?! "

One could make an evo-psy argument to why feminists scream "victim" the loudest, however.

post of the year 2012

amazing

e:

2. You can't use 'the abortion debate' as an argument for feminism, as it's a really massive moral issue, and not entirely relevant to the rights of a woman.

close second

[King DZA]

If I see a female being treated wrongly, I'll do my best to help her. If I see a male being treated wrongly, I'll do my best to help him. It's not like my empathy is some finite resource that I have to reserve for only the most fucked over individuals, and it pisses me off that anyone's mistreatment has to have priority over anyone else's. Help whoever you can whenever you can.

I honestly don't see why there can't be some all-encompassing movement that sees the oppression and unfair treatment of any group to be fucking stupid, and thus fights to abolish such behavior from humanity entirely, rather than a bunch of splintered parties fighting separately for whatever group seems to "have it worse". That's a movement I'd actually consider getting behind.

[Mlamlah]

Y'know, i'm gonna quote myself in another forum, because i feel what i said there is relevant here. Also because i'm really tired and don't feel like writing up a post that says pretty much the exact same thing right now.

Note that i'm responding to a thread entitled "It's only sexist when men do it", and in this case to the debate here relevant to feminism. When i mean feminism? I mean the original spirit of feminism, that of equality of gender, not the neo-feminism that so many people seem to cite as a reason feminism is irrelevant in this day and age, because it isn't.

I think that this is a really important discussion to have, but also that most of the people in our society that have the discussion are fixating on all the wrong things. I will attempt to explain what i view as some of the most vocal views on the topic (in relation to now), and then i will do my best to explain why i think they are both lacking a very important something to the points they are making. Note that the next two brief paragraphs are not necessarily my opinions, though there are some elements i agree with on either side of the debate.
Women have been downtrodden in most places, in most times throughout human history. Until very recently even the most progressive societies viewed women as weak, unintelligent, and overemotional. Until relatively recently, women were viewed as property, first by their families and then by their husbands, to be auctioned off and enslaved by misogynistic men, and given the dubious responsibility of birthing as many children as possible and obeying the strict social conventions set before them. Even now, when women in the developed world are given democratic and legal rights they are *still* overshadowed by a patriarchal society that demands their allegiance and obedience. Now, as always, is the time to rebel against our male dominated society.
The time for females to fight for their rights has come and gone. They got what they wanted back when they earned the right to vote in our society. Feminism is a cause long irrelevant in this day and age, women have muscled in on the territory of men and even now seek to replace us entirely. In a fit of irony, the women of the world seek to oppress and replace the men of it, turning them into second class citizens with no rights, we are well on our way there now.
Now, honestly, of either view i am inclined to agree with the former more than the latter, because i believe the latter is frustratingly fixated on extremely irrelevant details and tends towards panic and close mindedness.However! I believe that the argument has basis, and that is for one reason. In our society, women are treated unfairly. In our society men are treated unfairly. Contrary to what seems common belief these ideas do *not* contradict eachother, and there is no need to create a war between genders in order to be treated more fairly.
My reasoning: For a couple hundred years now, remarkable women have been fighting tooth and nail for the right to define their own place in society. This has resulted in all sorts of fascinating things, including the monumental leap forward of women achieving the right to vote. Many people could argue that this was the most monumental victory for women's rights in history but i disagree. I think that the most important thing to adapt the female role in society was much more gradual then that, over time they have developed much greater flexibility in what it means to be female in our society, this has enabled them much greater freedom of identity, from being able to put on pants in the morning to go out boxing to running for congress. In recent history the plight and inequality of womenkind was really blatant, so it created a societal battle to change, which opened up all sorts of thought and discussion and it has resulted in women pushing the bar further and further into allowing themselves to do more and more, i think that is a great thing. However, there is a problem with it. Men are treated unfairly by society too, maybe not in as many ways as women have, but in certainly a lot of the *same* ways. An example being something i mentioned just earlier, most people may not notice it, but some of the restrictions on what is okay for a man to wear in our society are *really* strict, and you may say "well, that's not a big deal", and i will strongly disagree. Men who decide to dress outside the norm are openly ridiculed in public and treated with disgust, and that''s not good. Also, there are a lot of limitations on how men may *behave* that are actually harmful to men as a whole. Did you know that the number of men who commit suicide is much higher than women who commit suicide? Yup. I think that the reason for all this is that while the feminist movement did a lot to spur discussion on women's rights, no big movement has done anything similiar for men, or transgendered/genderbending people for that matter. Actually, *especially* transgendered/genderbending people, no one gets treated more unfairly because of gender than them. This is why the feminist movement is *still relevant, because it's not just about women anymore, it's about all of us, and i think that every person in the world should be fighting for their freedom of identity, just not with eachother.

[Neonivek]

it pisses me off that anyone's mistreatment has to have priority over anyone else's.

It to me has to do a lot with understanding and empathy. How much we need to bend our thinking to understand and how people are inherantly mentally lazy when it comes to empathy.

I mean the original spirit of feminism, that of equality of gender

No, it wasn't... That idea came a bit later and developed.

It is actually an interesting subject personally.