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[andrea]

I think united states of europe would have avoided much of this sovereign debt crisis.
the greece problem was handled extremely late and badly and with little force and the late and weak reaction to that is extending the problems to neighbors. the monetary union is shaking because a tiny fraction of our total economy collapsed, and? that is not something that should happen.
I think a more united union would have fared much better.

[10ebbor10]

I think united states of europe would have avoided much of this sovereign debt crisis.
the greece problem was handled extremely late and badly and with little force and the late and weak reaction to that is extending the problems to neighbors. the monetary union is shaking because a tiny fraction of our total economy collapsed, and? that is not something that should happen.
I think a more united union would have fared much better.

Most of the debt crisis is caused by a lack of trust. I mean, Greece has to pay like 7% interest on it's debts right now, or more. And that's with all the institutions trying to help it. This lack of trust would have been much easily countered if there were things like EU debts (Ie, debts voucher backed by the entire EU, rather than Greece alone). Now there's constant fear that one nation will protest, and that the entire helping plan will fail. So far it seems like the Austerity measures are working, but yeah. There's a lot of problems.  The monetary Union isn't doing that bad, at worst Greece 'll drop out, which will bankrupt their economy and banks, which might bankrupt some others, but the damage should be limited. (Most of the banks lost their loans already.)

It doesn't help that the entire nation is extremely corrupt too.

Problem with Greece is that they shouldn't have entered the EU in the first place. They cheated their numbers for years, making it seem like they were doing much better than they actually were, and with the financial crisis that bubble bursted.

[ChairmanPoo]

Problem with Greece is that they shouldn't have entered the EU in the first place. They cheated their numbers for years, making it seem like they were doing much better than they actually were, and with the financial crisis that bubble bursted.

And now they have followed the troika advice for years and they're doing even WORSE than before. As is every country that has followed the EU's decrees. Surely they share some of the blame by now, hm?

This whole EU deal has been shown to be bullshit from day one. The British were the clever ones by staying out of it except for punctual matters (I never thought I'd be saying this). If it sinks good riddance. It's little more than a pyramid scheme in favor of Central Europe's banks nowadays, anyway.

[10ebbor10]

Problem with Greece is that they shouldn't have entered the EU in the first place. They cheated their numbers for years, making it seem like they were doing much better than they actually were, and with the financial crisis that bubble bursted.

And now they have followed the troika advice for years and they're doing even WORSE than before. As is every country that has followed the EU's decrees. Surely they share some of the blame by now, hm?

This whole EU deal has been shown to be bullshit from day one. The British were the clever ones by staying out of it except for punctual matters (I never thought I'd be saying this). If it sinks good riddance. It's little more than a pyramid scheme in favor of Central Europe's banks nowadays, anyway.

We had this discussion already, and I remember that your sides main argument was that a high interest rate on loans was a good thing, which it isn't.*

As for being worse of, let's see. The EU fonctions mostly as a gigantic trade block and as a way to ensure peace. Over the period 1980-2000, the Eu has become the world largest trade block, and exports/inports have increased by 3-4 fold. (US had 2 fold, China had 6). We also haven't got any world wars, the cold war has stopped within Europe, the east block is mostly peacefull, and the EU got the Noble prize for peace.

Over all, members of the Union seem to be doing quite well concerning economy, with most of them recovering better than originally expected. Internal trade is doing great too. Having the capability of crossing the borders without controls is an enormous luxury, as is being capable of paying in the same currency. The euro's also a stronger coinage than the dollar, and is the second monetary reserve currency, used in one quarter of financial transactions. Another note is energy, on which the European is doing quite wel, the ability to have a central control system for energy is certainly benefical.

*If the EU hadn't intervened, Greece, Ireland and some others would know be completely and utterly bankrupt. The point of governement collapse, complete economical collapse bankrupt. So far that you might get actual get famines and such.


Edit: On the side note, we do have a nice motto: In varietate concordia

[Dutchling]

Also, our cash will gets pics of bull-raped women on it.

[Darvi]

Nice one.

[ChairmanPoo]

Bull. The so-called economic rescues are aimed mostly at rescuing centroeuropean banks at the cost of the goverments of the whole union. The latest proposals to Italy and Spain even do away with the mask of "rescuing the goverment", and instead spin around giving cash to those nations' banks directly, which will go to the forementioned centroeuropean banks, AND have the state assume the debt. It's highway robbery. It's also undeniably NOT working at rescuing the Eurozone's economies, which are hitting new lows monthly. And yeah, we've had this argument before, and I'm not going to stand still while you shovel us your pro-EU garbage when anyone with eyes on his face can see what the EU and ECB's policies are doing to the whole continent and beyond. The good thing is that it's so destructive (lo and behold, Central Europe's economies are beggining to get hit. Turns out it's not good to ruinate your main buyers) that it's just a matter of time before this whole setup comes down in flames. I have a bottle of Jack Daniels stowed away to celebrate that day.

[GlyphGryph]

And none of this seems like it's related to Puerto Rico in the slightest. Take it to your own thread, folks.

[RedKing]

Dang furriners, invadin' our territory....before it's a state. 

[Digital Hellhound]

You'll see, when Puerto Rico joins the EU. Wouldn't that be nice? No need to worry about flags and stuff, they can come hang around with us.

[kaijyuu]

You'll see, when Puerto Rico joins the EU. Wouldn't that be nice? No need to worry about flags and stuff, they can come hang around with us.

No. Puerto Rico was our friend first. You cant steal them.

[TripJack]

And Texas, we should give them back Texas.

good idea

let's throw in california too, make it a 3-for-1 special

[Darvi]

let's throw in california too, make it a 3-for-1 special

Why would anybody want to make such a deal?

[TripJack]

(removed)

[RedKing]

What he's saying is, "Mexico gets all the Hispanics back, white people win."