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Author Topic: Time for an upgrade?  (Read 3997 times)

L4mppu

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Re: Time for an upgrade?
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2012, 03:51:29 pm »

I found dwarf fortress because i saw videos about gnomoria and articles on rps etc. I think dwarf fortress should stay as it is now and let toady slowly add all those new things. There will surely be people playing dwarf fortress from my generation too (I'm 15) so don't worry. People will slowly start understanding that its not about the graphics but the gameplay. I just recently unterstood this and now I almost exclusively play classical rpgs, roguelikes and for a few days dwarf fortress.
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SeymoreGlass

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Re: Time for an upgrade?
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2012, 06:44:58 pm »

No.
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The biggest issue seems to be size.  A 1x1 room would allow for maximum child desecration (waiting on someone to sig that)

pbnjoe

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Re: Time for an upgrade?
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2012, 06:55:44 pm »

What was stolen with my laptop and research last week  :'(

Backups, backups, backups! So important.

On topic, pretty much everything that needs to be said has been, as this isn't really a new idea :) It's gonna stay as it is (the way it's being developed that is) and that's one of the things I love about it so much. Safe, secure and sure of what it is and how it's going to be developed.

... God, I'm totally bred for IT :'(
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James009

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Re: Time for an upgrade?
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2012, 08:52:28 pm »

Yes and No.

As much as I'd LOVE to see DF as a major commercial release, it wouldn't be healthy and probably not successful. What I would like to see is commercial games similar to DF (like Gnomaria or Clockwork Empires) being developed and released by major developers. It could be successful as the new X-COM game or it could be a disaster. The trick is really staying close to the core fundamentals of what makes Dwarf Fortress good, resisting major changes, and, most of all, making the graphics, interface, and engine functional, easy to use, and impressive.

Personally, I'd aim for Sega Genesis RPG style graphics (like Shining Force or something). For others to really grasp this game it needs to get pas the ASCII and to have somewhat better graphics, however, it does NOT need any 3D graphics. Too many companies focus on 3D graphics when they could do just fine with 2D graphics and do more with it easier.
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GoombaGeek

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Re: Time for an upgrade?
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2012, 08:56:02 pm »

I have loved DF for a very long time.
I dont really spend much time here on the forums anymore.
I built my mods,  added my forbidden races and exotic meats. 
I have enjoyed my time with my outdated version.  (What was stolen with my laptop and research last week  :'( )

But these days I see a great many games that are copying the idea in newer engines like gnomoria.  A cheap knockoff.

This made me think; aint it time for dwarf fortress to Go BIG?  To step into the larger commercial world?
To rebuild the whole system into an new Modern UI. 
And to spend the time not to add new features but to stabilise all existing ones. 

Then this game would rule its margin in the gaming world for many more years!  (Thats my feeling.)

This game has an history, great moments and stories. 
It would be great if it keeps on existing for the wider, newer generation.
Naw.

I'd get really bored if updates stopped coming.

I love bugs. I love being part of a game that's alive, a game that's still ongoing.

I'm used to the UI, any changes will just mess me up. It took me four months but I'm officially an ASCII old guy. Besides, DF always outshines the knockoffs in the end, unless they aren't really knockoffs. Remember Dwarves!?? Me neither.
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katwithk

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Re: Time for an upgrade?
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2012, 08:43:11 am »

I love DF just the way it is. I would give up a more advanced UI for the more advanced simulation any day, and I love that people often have no idea hat they're looking at when they watch Mr play. Makes me feel like some sort of arcane seer.

And considering what the toady one has done alone, I don't want anyone else in on his action. He is a freaky genius, and his work is beautiful. Huge teams of programmers have turned out shoddier work than this one man.
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I am Leo

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Re: Time for an upgrade?
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2012, 09:07:51 am »

I love how this forum closes ranks to protect Toady every time someone starts a thread like this. It's heartwarming to see.
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Starver

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Re: Time for an upgrade?
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2012, 10:00:56 am »

I feel guilty about it, but can't help thinking what I think about issues such as this.  I do try and go into what I say (in such circumstances) rather than "AOL"-it.

I also don't like the "If you don't like it, then don't play it" idea, but (as I think I said in my own posts) if I ever don't like the way DF is going then I will stop playing it (or keep with the version I still did like[1]...), so I can't blame others for taking that route due to extant failings that they perceive (rightly or wrongly, and it's all YMMV anyhow).


Some things I say may even sound elitist.  It's not my intention, but then there's entire populations of Elitists that never consider themselves that, so who knows whether that's what I convey myself as, in this type of discussion.  All I know is that you can get what you put into the game.  It's complicated, and that's more or less what the game's about.  Is it surprising that the playing of the game is also complicated?  I also have Progress Quest running on this computer, as a possible antithesis to DF (which I don't currently or indeed often have working on this computer, BYGTI), and would certainly be so if it had better graphics... ;)


Horses for courses, and if equine flesh aint on your menu I'm not forcing you to eat it, is all I'm saying.  And it can't be surprising that the most likely people to frequent the boards often enough to come in and swamp a thread such as this are people who haven't given up on that particular diet yet, and may indeed quite like it.  Some of us may prefer it raw and tenderised beneath our saddles, some would prefer using a BBQ, some probably go for a more varied diet and occasionally go for horse-flesh within a stew of many meats, highly seasoned and boiled so that any bugs that infest it are just denatured protein and can be effectively forgotten about.  People who don't think they can handle it needn't, and I'm not going to force-feed any vegans or pretend that there's a direct Quorn-like equivalent for those that think they would like the kind of food but can't handle the inevitable ramifications.  To extend that analogy to breaking-point and beyond.

So, yeah, not surprising that a DF forum (or, to be precise, the DF-subset of the Bay12 forums) has a lot of people who like DF roughly the way it is (albeit with their own subset of ideas about how it would be more perfect than it already is).  And I'm not sure what we can (if indeed we should) do about that, especially when someone happens to stumble in and say "Hey, what about we do <what a number of people before have suggested>", without realising that there's oft-repeated reasons why it's not going to be done that way, or at the very least that the guy who'll know whether it's likely isn't really so behoven to any particular individual (pre-agreed sponsorship issues aside) that he'll change (or maintain) his mindset according to the whim of a such a forum thread.  If the 'droves' go, it'll probably be a game-changer, but I would expect people to be leaving in them only if 'unfavourable' game-changes are happening in the first place, and presumably the idea would be that this'd be bringing in new droves.  And, still, it's Toady's prerogative, so all power to his eight little fingers and two thumbs and the occasional forehead-bounce off of the keyboard, as well, no doubt.


But I probably witter on too much.

TL;DR;?  Erm.  Yeah, it's Toady's baby, as already said.  The world (this bit of it, anyway) turns on this fact and I personally like it that way, and I don't think I'm in a minority so I'm not sure if you could expect a much different 'balance' of views represented here.  And... erm.... ideas are good, but research them beforehand if they're biggies like "Make it commercial", m'kay?


Oh, and Codepage437 FTW! (Just to add a bone of contention to such a homogeneously like-minded thread of rebuttals ;))


[1] I was originally hedgy about the whole introduction of Vampires, but as I haven't suffered from them yet (even though[2] I spent ages changing my fortress-digging scheme to produce a "Panopticon"-style reception area to keep an eye on all new immigrants) and I've succesfully Adventure Moded against these and the werebeasts without significant problems.  I've also hardly touched minecarts yet, but I don't need to, so again the concern of anything game-changing (stone and mineral drop-rates aside) is so far postponed and doubtless I'll soon get into that properly.

[2] Or because?
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Kamamura

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Re: Time for an upgrade?
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2012, 10:32:48 am »

I was very disappointed with the path Notch has chosen for Minecraft. I don't want the same thing to happen with DF. So, no.

Selling a million copies isn't really a bad thing though.
Except for playing multiplayer mods aren't possible in anytime soon, Minecraft seems to be on a good track.

Selling a million copies isn't really a bad thing ... for Notch. As soon as he made that pile of cash, he really stopped trying. The hyped 1.0 was unfinished with some RPG fluff hastily stuffed in. After that, he just stopped caring and I don't think he will ever work again.

For the game, it would be better if he did not make that pile of dough, because we could actually have seen some interesting content.
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GoombaGeek

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Re: Time for an upgrade?
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2012, 11:01:33 am »

I was very disappointed with the path Notch has chosen for Minecraft. I don't want the same thing to happen with DF. So, no.

Selling a million copies isn't really a bad thing though.
Except for playing multiplayer mods aren't possible in anytime soon, Minecraft seems to be on a good track.

Selling a million copies isn't really a bad thing ... for Notch. As soon as he made that pile of cash, he really stopped trying. The hyped 1.0 was unfinished with some RPG fluff hastily stuffed in. After that, he just stopped caring and I don't think he will ever work again.

For the game, it would be better if he did not make that pile of dough, because we could actually have seen some interesting content.
He quit last year, everything since 1.8 was Jeb.

I thought people here wouldn't make this mistake, but no, apparently everyone thinks Notch personally included everything bad. By himself.
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Starver

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Re: Time for an upgrade?
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2012, 11:59:08 am »

He quit last year, everything since 1.8 was Jeb.

;)
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Dwarfotaur

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Re: Time for an upgrade?
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2012, 12:03:06 pm »

People always talk about a UI/graphics change/overhaul but can you imagine what it would look like? I certainly can't. If you had more approachable and attractive graphics, the game would be even more cluttered. Besides, any game with a UI and hotkeys, everyone ends up using the Hotkeys. Once you learn them, they are no longer an issue are simply extensions of your fingers used as a means to an end. I.e. It's not "I have to press d then b then d", your brain just says "I need to dump all this stuff" and what do you know, you have the dump designation tool selected.

Dwarf Fortress is actually very minimalistic, it's just the sheer amount of content that makes it overwhelming.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 12:05:15 pm by Dwarfotaur »
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AutomataKittay

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Re: Time for an upgrade?
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2012, 12:06:10 pm »

I was very disappointed with the path Notch has chosen for Minecraft. I don't want the same thing to happen with DF. So, no.

Selling a million copies isn't really a bad thing though.
Except for playing multiplayer mods aren't possible in anytime soon, Minecraft seems to be on a good track.

Selling a million copies isn't really a bad thing ... for Notch. As soon as he made that pile of cash, he really stopped trying. The hyped 1.0 was unfinished with some RPG fluff hastily stuffed in. After that, he just stopped caring and I don't think he will ever work again.

For the game, it would be better if he did not make that pile of dough, because we could actually have seen some interesting content.

I'm not presuming to know Notch, but some people drops projects once they feels their creativity fuel's been gone, pretty much without regard to how 'complete' it is compared to their original vision. It's pretty frequent problem that's not normally noticible :D

At least I does know some people that just up and stopped working on whatever little project they was doing to go to the next project without finishing it. Those kinds of things don't typically gets far enough to be published, or known enough to be noticed ( Open-source stuff that fails that way abounds plenty, though, in repository sites ).

Getting enough money can contribute to it, but usually, it's just boredom, or feeling they're done with it. Toady being able to keep up his work on DF as long as he does is pretty much the exception for independent developer.
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Cthulufaic

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Re: Time for an upgrade?
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2012, 02:53:52 pm »

The clumsy UI(you can hardly call it graphic) and the sheer complexity are part of what makes Dwarf Fortress Dwarf Fortress!
If the UI was updated and the game made simpler to understand at first then it could hardly be called Dwarf Fortress anymore!  It would be completely unrecognizable.   Unlike probably all game developers Toady is making this game because HE WANT TO and not because he wants money.
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zubb2

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Re: Time for an upgrade?
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2012, 03:16:17 pm »

Hey your not playing minecraft right.

That stuff is meant for local splitscreen,waging war against your freinds and pilliaging their stuff.

Me and my freinds fight each other and work on building better practical forts.

Me and my freind have taken over tutorial villiage,burned it rebuilt it with stone brick towers and are now building a canal to get there from my mountain fort faster than walking.

360 version

Back on topic: NO
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