Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2 3

Author Topic: Building a 'Village' above ground?  (Read 4054 times)

Dwarfotaur

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Building a 'Village' above ground?
« on: October 31, 2012, 09:38:40 am »

I thought it would be fun to plan out and build a village, using constructed walls/floors. My plan was to give each dwarf their own house, with the main floor consisting of a small storage with the workshops, then an upstairs for their personal bedroom.

Has anyone tried this? I'm already in to my second year and I have only just finished one building and dwarves are already tantruming from living outdoors and without bedrooms. It probably would have been a better idea to build the necessities indoors first and then move outdoors (they currently have no beds, no dining room, no nothing).

I had multiple masons to try and smash out as many blocks as possible but with the recent hauling changes, it is taking forever to get enough blocks to build a building (takes even longer as the ones making the blocks are also the ones placing them...). Especially as you have to floor off the entire z-level above the walls for it to count as 'indoors'. My biggest problem is I wanted the walls/floor to be consistent so I needed the same type of block for every wall. I've just realised typing this that I could have made the rock/block stockpiles only accept the stone I was using to limit clutter/walking distance.

Another problem is everyone gets interrupted by even the smallest wild animal as most of the dwarves are running around the surface world. I'm starting to think it's a futile idea as dwarves are much happier all round if they're underground.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 09:50:46 am by Dwarfotaur »
Logged

sjaakwortel

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Building a 'Village' above ground?
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2012, 09:47:27 am »

I did this before, but it takes alot of time to build these houses, so I started out with some basic things underground, and moved those to the surface later on.
Logged
Quote
Quote from: Greep on May 08, 2010, 07:55:20 pm
do dwarves move any slower when using the stairs?
Quote
Compared to falling? Yes.

AutomataKittay

  • Bay Watcher
  • Grinding gears
    • View Profile
Re: Building a 'Village' above ground?
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2012, 09:54:22 am »

I've done it before with woodcutters and a few hunters to stalk down the wild animals. Though my layout was closer to apartment complex than personal house.

It takes a lot of time, just because of constructing stuff and flooring as you mention. I took a lot longer because I was cutting trees down and using them instead of quarrying rocks :D

And yes best method is to first make a dormority, either a 'commons' building that I usually use as dining room too, or later converts to storage, then build a space to store food and have a still, usually I just jam a ramp to the side of dorm building and do it on it's roof :D
Logged

doublestrafe

  • Bay Watcher
  • [PONY_DEPENDENT]
    • View Profile
Re: Building a 'Village' above ground?
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2012, 10:00:13 am »

I did a no-dig challenge a while back. It wasn't a village, but I did have to get dwarves to survive outside for quite a while living in a wood-fenced area with a single 8x2 area -- just a tiny bit of overhang from the side of the fence, no actual building--with about four beds, a table and chair, and eventually a couple of coffins. That was enough to keep them from freaking out for the first year or two, until I got enough glass furnaces going in the volcano to start seriously building.

(It would easily have gone the full ten years, except I got creative five years in and then had a little magma accident inside my green glass space pyramid...)
Logged

Dwarfotaur

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Building a 'Village' above ground?
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2012, 10:07:49 am »

No digging at all? That sounds hard, there's only so much wood on the map.

That reminds me, how can I get more trees if I cut them all down? I usually have metal/trade going by the time I ran out of trees but I've been embarking on smaller maps lately to avoid FPS death.

Another question I'll post here just in case. Can you butcher animals killed by your military? I'm interested in trying a more... Meat based approach (bored of spamming rock nuts and plump helmets), so I'd also like to know what type of biome has plenty of things to kill, preferably ones that are aggressive for a challenge.
Logged

Maestro Ugo

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Building a 'Village' above ground?
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2012, 10:16:52 am »

Trees regrow after a time.

If you are embarking in a heavily wooded area, having 3 woodcutters working 100% on woodcutting, still didn't deplete it as the trees regrew. At least that's my experience.
Logged

AutomataKittay

  • Bay Watcher
  • Grinding gears
    • View Profile
Re: Building a 'Village' above ground?
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2012, 10:17:55 am »

Trees grows everywhere non-mountainous, it takes around a year and half to two year for sapling to sprout, I think surface trees require solid level under it to grow. I've not really investigated the frequency, but it's definitely somewhat slow, dependant on wetness of area from experience. I think the embark map biome information helps.

Yes you can butcher animals killed by hunters or military, as long as it's wild animals and you have butcher shop next to refuse pile for corpses on it. Savage biomes tend to have more aggressive creatures, and wet areas are good for a lot of animals from experience ( though anywhere with forest are ). You will run out, eventually, though, unless you have an animal husbandery.

Or cage them up and have an breeding arena!

If dwarves don't butcher them, they're either too small to give meat, or too shredded to give meat.
Logged

TKGP

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Building a 'Village' above ground?
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2012, 10:20:38 am »

That reminds me, how can I get more trees if I cut them all down?
Three things: first, regular trees will just grow back slowly, so you can clearcut the surface every year or two for a bit more wood. Second, once you've breached the caverns subterranean plants and trees will start growing in any underground soil or mud. I usually breach all three caverns and then hollow out an entire soil layer. Lots of fancy wood and safe pasture area after it starts growing in. This doesn't help on a no mining embark though of course. Third obviously is just to make sure you always request wood with a high priority from diplomats.

Quote
Another question I'll post here just in case. Can you butcher animals killed by your military?
Yes you can, although it would probably be simpler to set up some hunters instead, as they'll automatically go out, kill things, and retrieve the corpses for you.

Fake edit: Ninjas. ;~;
Logged
Quote from: tomio175
Quote from: Mrhappyface
Well if COD players all have ADHD, and Minecrafters autism, then what do DF players all have?
Cave adaption.

Starver

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Building a 'Village' above ground?
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2012, 10:57:09 am »

I had multiple masons to try and smash out as many blocks as possible but with the recent hauling changes, it is taking forever to get enough blocks to build a building (takes even longer as the ones making the blocks are also the ones placing them...).
Did you consider setting the masonry workshops restricted to just the "block-makers" and making burrows around them to restrict the block-makers just to them and the input/output stockpiles (plus food/drink/sleeping if you're not sadistic), then letting everyone else haul rocks in and blocks out to the building site's own local block-piles, while the masons do their job without too much walking involved and other distractions?

(Even further, have a third cadre consisting of building-masons who are restricted to the building site and the block-piles at that site (+local f/d/s, if you consider it applicable).  Start off with a few block-makers and a few block-builders and everyone else on general hauling duties that aren't excluded from the work entirely by being being assigned to farming or whatever, then transfer some more to the Block-Makers Guild if the output goes low and add more to the Block-Builders guild if the site-pile gets full, until you're about balanced and any fewer haulers would cause their own problems.)

YGTI.  Although the time for this advice may well be past.  And I'm assuming that you'd already be using any minecart/etc efficiencies you can, if available, as part of the movement process.
Logged

Dwarfotaur

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Building a 'Village' above ground?
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2012, 11:02:46 am »

I've actually never used burrows to that extent so that sounds fairly complicated. I've also never touched Minecarts as I haven't played since late 2010 D:.

The only new concept I really understand is wheelbarrows... Must construct additional wheelbarrows.
Logged

AutomataKittay

  • Bay Watcher
  • Grinding gears
    • View Profile
Re: Building a 'Village' above ground?
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2012, 11:18:44 am »

I had multiple masons to try and smash out as many blocks as possible but with the recent hauling changes, it is taking forever to get enough blocks to build a building (takes even longer as the ones making the blocks are also the ones placing them...).
Did you consider setting the masonry workshops restricted to just the "block-makers" and making burrows around them to restrict the block-makers just to them and the input/output stockpiles (plus food/drink/sleeping if you're not sadistic), then letting everyone else haul rocks in and blocks out to the building site's own local block-piles, while the masons do their job without too much walking involved and other distractions?

(Even further, have a third cadre consisting of building-masons who are restricted to the building site and the block-piles at that site (+local f/d/s, if you consider it applicable).  Start off with a few block-makers and a few block-builders and everyone else on general hauling duties that aren't excluded from the work entirely by being being assigned to farming or whatever, then transfer some more to the Block-Makers Guild if the output goes low and add more to the Block-Builders guild if the site-pile gets full, until you're about balanced and any fewer haulers would cause their own problems.)

YGTI.  Although the time for this advice may well be past.  And I'm assuming that you'd already be using any minecart/etc efficiencies you can, if available, as part of the movement process.

I get a lot of error or slowed down workmanship every time I tries to restrict dwarves to burrows that have jobs appliable elsewhere, it's pretty noticible with masons for me. Pretty much best way I've found is to disable hauling for all the masons and have a few workshops with a stone stockpile around and linked to them.

I think burrowing them might be overkill in this case, since if there're not enough blocks, then someone'll be in shop working it. Having wheelbarrowed stockpile of block near the spot where you want to build helps, if they're too heavy ( no bins on the hauling in stockpile because they'll drag bins out, you could make another stockpile around it to take from hauling stockpile for bins, though ).

What you proposed is pretty nice idea, though, and I'd use a dedicated sealed room for the block-makers with minecart dumpers dumping supplies in and a couple dedicated haulers within the room. It'd be pretty much a mini-megaproject that way, though, but a lot less error-prone :D
Logged

Urist McKoga

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Building a 'Village' above ground?
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2012, 11:27:57 am »

I thought it would be fun to plan out and build a village, using constructed walls/floors. My plan was to give each dwarf their own house, with the main floor consisting of a small storage with the workshops, then an upstairs for their personal bedroom.

Has anyone tried this? I'm already in to my second year and I have only just finished one building and dwarves are already tantruming from living outdoors and without bedrooms. It probably would have been a better idea to build the necessities indoors first and then move outdoors (they currently have no beds, no dining room, no nothing).

I had multiple masons to try and smash out as many blocks as possible but with the recent hauling changes, it is taking forever to get enough blocks to build a building (takes even longer as the ones making the blocks are also the ones placing them...). Especially as you have to floor off the entire z-level above the walls for it to count as 'indoors'. My biggest problem is I wanted the walls/floor to be consistent so I needed the same type of block for every wall. I've just realised typing this that I could have made the rock/block stockpiles only accept the stone I was using to limit clutter/walking distance.

Another problem is everyone gets interrupted by even the smallest wild animal as most of the dwarves are running around the surface world. I'm starting to think it's a futile idea as dwarves are much happier all round if they're underground.
You can embark with a hunter or build a wall in you city to avoid animals.For houses, i think comunal Houses a better idea, and make a Inn with food storage,booze, and dining hall in first floor and some rooms in top. Put all single dwarfs in this ;D
Logged

Starver

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Building a 'Village' above ground?
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2012, 11:42:12 am »

Well, I excluded the details of minecarts because I haven't really used them yet, either... ;)

Burrows is 'easy'.  For the dedicated block-cutters, set up the workshop(s) and stockpiles (inwards, outwards and supplies) and beds/dining facilities as you wish) and paint over these all with a burrow.  (You can paint over the separate areas that these exist[1], but I'm assuming you're putting them in close proximity.)  In the workshops, manage them to only allow given dwarves to work in them, and for the burrow set them up as the place those given dwarves wish to be.

While things don't got to hell-in-a-minecart you should find said dwarves only take jobs (and materials) from the burrow (whether that be block-making or eating or sleeping) and while they are free to wander outside the limits (or between, if separated), you should have made it so that they feel no need to wander any further than you'd consider necessary.


@AutomataKittay: Setting up a burrow on dwarves actually doing a 'area forbidden' job (where they're fetching from outside the burrow limits, especially, or have flagged such in their 'job queue') probably tends to create your cancellations.  To this end I'd usually get them assigned to cutting blocks (having nulled all other masonic jobs for the duration, maybe) and then assign them to the burrow while they're well within it and doing the block-making/whatever.  Re-assign these extraneous jobs once it's sorted.  When looking for new jobs they should find totally in-burrow bits of stone (or in-burrow supplies to eat and drink of, or in-burrow beds to sleep in, although if they don't they'll 'suffer' a bit longer and only wander out when they're really fed up of the 'confined' situation.)  When adding further dwarves to the confined jobs, just pick your moment.  (Helps if the meeting area or dining room is within your space and you choose one who is already in there doing whatever...  Once they've finished, they'll look for an in-burrow job, find one and start it, no fuss.)

Or at least that's how it tends to work for me.  I use civilian burrows extensively[2], and yet military-alert/refugee burrows never, making sure that peacetime burrow designations (and, for the unburrowed, their default work areas that they want to wander round) are already within the confines of the 'safe' area.  Playing styles vary, of course and this might not work for everyone.



[1] Or even eventually assign each dwarf separately to each and every one of the "workshop" burrows, "stockpile" burrows, etc, that you need, but you might as well keep it simple with one.

[2] My favourite use, actually, is to define (for example) a cavern-exploration shaft or two (stairway(s) to find caverns) as an Exploring burrow, assigning one miner exclusively to that (give or take a supplies/sleeping area), while defining the simultaneously sought after underground field area (or other current needed excavation area) as a PriorityDigging burrow and assign another miner exclusively to that (ditto with attached supplies/sleeping area).  This way I don't get the room dug out but no exploring or the exploring being done but none of the other priority stuff going on, without otherwise re-jigging the mining jobs to ensure that only one miner can work at the (naturally chosen) 'priority' mineface and the other taking the next (naturally chosen) priority area.  And I can also map out entire complexes of rooms and only 'open them up' to being mined as I want to, without having to unpaint digging designations at the edge of the currently opened areas and then re-paint them (and remove further bits at the next 'firebreak' between jobs) to stop them being dealt with prematurely.  Easier to do than to describe, though!
Logged

Splint

  • Bay Watcher
  • War is a valid form of diplomacy.
    • View Profile
Re: Building a 'Village' above ground?
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2012, 11:48:28 am »

I figured I'd toss this out there, I ripped the sawmill from corrosion out and it makes building with wood vastly easier, putting wood blocks on par with stone ones on production scale. Requires a minor bit of modding, but for above ground work using wood I'd call it either a must or at least very handy asset.

Dwarfotaur

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Building a 'Village' above ground?
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2012, 12:09:57 pm »

You can embark with a hunter or build a wall in you city to avoid animals.For houses, i think comunal Houses a better idea, and make a Inn with food storage,booze, and dining hall in first floor and some rooms in top. Put all single dwarfs in this ;D

I was actually just doodling a layout for an Inn in a meeting >_>, it'll be a time/space saver at the start. Once I have enough dwarves to have a constant supply of blocks, I'll think about giving people their own house :P
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3