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Author Topic: Best fort I've ever had, collapses in a heartbeat...  (Read 1823 times)

Mr.Muse

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Best fort I've ever had, collapses in a heartbeat...
« on: October 27, 2012, 10:04:32 pm »

I had some cave crocs caged and tamed from prior goblin attacks and figured I would use them for egg production and maybe breeding.  I made a pen/training area and put a next box and some ropes in it.  One of the crocs killed it's handler in the transfer and went on a killing spree, body parts everywhere.  No problem, I thought, I'll just send my 10 legendary, candied military.  As they start to engage the croc, a passing marksdwarf starts taking shots at the croc as well, but they put a bolt in the kidney of the Captain of the Guard....

That squad, all legendary, all candy equipment, began killing every dwarf in site.  I'm waiting for the carnage to wind down and I'm going to give Adventure mode a try and see what I might find at the abandoned fort.

I've been playing for several months and this is first I've seen or heard of this happening.  Was this like a rebellion or something?
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UltraValican

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Re: Best fort I've ever had, collapses in a heartbeat...
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2012, 10:10:20 pm »

I had some cave crocs caged and tamed from prior goblin attacks and figured I would use them for egg production and maybe breeding.  I made a pen/training area and put a next box and some ropes in it.  One of the crocs killed it's handler in the transfer and went on a killing spree, body parts everywhere.  No problem, I thought, I'll just send my 10 legendary, candied military.  As they start to engage the croc, a passing marksdwarf starts taking shots at the croc as well, but they put a bolt in the kidney of the Captain of the Guard....

That squad, all legendary, all candy equipment, began killing every dwarf in site.  I'm waiting for the carnage to wind down and I'm going to give Adventure mode a try and see what I might find at the abandoned fort.

I've been playing for several months and this is first I've seen or heard of this happening.  Was this like a rebellion or something?
Sounds like a loyalty cascade, but I didn't know friendly fire existed in DF outside of breath attacks.
A loyalty cascade is when a dwarf kills a dwarf of the same civ , marking it as an enemy of the state while still being a member of the state. Militia dwarf kills the 2nd Dwarf and a cycle of death will continue ad infinitum till everyone is dead.
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misko27

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Re: Best fort I've ever had, collapses in a heartbeat...
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2012, 10:11:55 pm »

It's Loyalty cascading, but Friednly fire? Maybe, it hit something, and fell? It doesn't happen in DF.
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JimmyBobJr

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Re: Best fort I've ever had, collapses in a heartbeat...
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2012, 10:16:15 pm »

I had some cave crocs caged and tamed from prior goblin attacks and figured I would use them for egg production and maybe breeding.  I made a pen/training area and put a next box and some ropes in it.  One of the crocs killed it's handler in the transfer and went on a killing spree, body parts everywhere.  No problem, I thought, I'll just send my 10 legendary, candied military.  As they start to engage the croc, a passing marksdwarf starts taking shots at the croc as well, but they put a bolt in the kidney of the Captain of the Guard....

That squad, all legendary, all candy equipment, began killing every dwarf in site.  I'm waiting for the carnage to wind down and I'm going to give Adventure mode a try and see what I might find at the abandoned fort.

I've been playing for several months and this is first I've seen or heard of this happening.  Was this like a rebellion or something?
Yeah, its a loyalty Cascade.
Its a known... "Feature"... of DF. Most commonly happens when you force a Militia to kill a Dwavern caravan or emissary. What essentialy happens is that the killer creates his own Civilization group, with only him in it, But doesnt remove him from his original Civilization. This only occurs when a Dwarf of one Civ attacks a Dwarf of the same civ while sane - Not tantruming etc. So, Dwarf from Civ A attacks a Dwarf from Civ A, and creates Civ B. Since a Member of Civ B is at war with Civ A, all other dwarves of Civ A attack Civ B. However, since this Civ B dwarf is still a part of Civ A, every attacker creates a New Civ.

It is possible to stop a loyalty cascade by Quarantining any dwarves that havent engaged in combat and leaving everyone else to die out.

However, i dont think its possible to have friendly fire in Dwarf Fortress. Ive never heard of a Bolt from a dwarf hitting a friendly dwarf on a miss. It might be possible, but i dont know. Its never happened to me, at the least.
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Mr.Muse

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Re: Best fort I've ever had, collapses in a heartbeat...
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2012, 10:25:37 pm »

I found the point where things went awry in the gamelog.  I'm pasting a snippet below.

I was running Ironhand 0.73 and using the spintermind-attributes version of Therapist.  I tried DFHack out once but to my knowledge I didn't make any permanent changes to the game itself.  I'm pretty sure I genned that world after removing DFHack.

Fortress mode had a good run, and ate way too much of my time.  I'll give Adventure mode a try now....

LOG:
The Stray Cave Crocodile latches on firmly!
The Stray Cave Crocodile shakes The Dog around by the left rear paw and the severed part sails off in an arc!
The left rear paw is ripped away and remains in The Stray Cave Crocodile's grip!
Cog �blelr¡t, Farmer cancels Pen/Pasture Large Animal: Interrupted by Stray Cave Crocodile.
Vab“k Thimshurcatten, Miner cancels Store Item in Stockpile: Interrupted by Stray Cave Crocodile.
Dod¢k Zatkol, duchess cancels Store Item in Stockpile: Interrupted by Stray Cave Crocodile.
The Hammer Lord bashes The Stray Cave Crocodile in the right front leg with his (-®+steel war hammer+¯-), chipping the bone!
The Hammer Lord bashes The Stray Cave Crocodile in the left front leg with his (-®+steel war hammer+¯-), chipping the bone!
Eshtƒn K–buks rek, Diagnoser cancels Eat: Interrupted by Stray Cave Crocodile.
Lokum Nalmedtob, Elite Marksdwarf cancels Eat: Interrupted by Hammer Lord.
The flying {cave crocodile bone bolt} strikes The Hammer Lord in the upper body from the side, tearing the muscle and tearing the liver through the steel breastplate!
The {cave crocodile bone bolt} has lodged firmly in the wound!
The Miner punches The Stray Cave Crocodile in the right front foot with her left hand, bruising the muscle!
The Mace Lord bashes The Stray Cave Crocodile in the right front leg with her ð®ðsilver maceð¯ð, chipping the bone!
Catten Sefolrig•th, Fish Cleaner cancels Store Item in Stockpile: Interrupted by Stray Cave Crocodile.
The Swordmaster stabs The Stray Cave Crocodile in the right rear leg with his iron short sword, chipping the bone!
A tendon has been torn!
•nul Akgoslokum, Brewer cancels Store Item in Stockpile: Interrupted by Swordmaster.
•nul Zithisudil, Armorer cancels Store Item in Vehicle: Interrupted by Swordmaster.
Kad“l Geshudzat, Strand Extractor cancels Extract Metal Strands: Interrupted by Swordmaster.
The flying {ðcave crocodile bone boltð} strikes The Swordmaster in the lower body from behind, but the attack is deflected by The Swordmaster's steel breastplate!
The flying {cave crocodile bone bolt} strikes The Hammer Lord in the right lower leg, chipping the bone through the ðsteel high bootð!
A ligament has been torn and a tendon has been torn!
The Hammer Lord gives in to pain.
Dumat Thobasrer, Stonecrafter cancels Place Item in Tomb: Interrupted by Swordmaster.
The Swordmaster strikes at The Miner but the shot is parried!

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UltraValican

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Re: Best fort I've ever had, collapses in a heartbeat...
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2012, 10:31:04 pm »

Quote
Stray cave croc
You just got" Boatmurdered".
Animal A is tamed but somehow kills an allied dwarf.
Animal A is now considered hostile, but still considered "friendly".
Anyone who attacks Animal A is placed into the same category.
In older versions dwarves wouldn't even run from these animals, this is why the "elephants" were so horrible in Boatmurdered. I short, loyalty cascade.
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Mr.Muse

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Re: Best fort I've ever had, collapses in a heartbeat...
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2012, 10:35:50 pm »

Ok, I see now.  By ordering that squad to kill the 'pet' croc, they became enemies of the fort.  It wasn't friendly fire, it was war at that point.

It's just as well, I had been starting to think the 'fun' was lacking anyway.

Thanks, everyone!
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Best fort I've ever had, collapses in a heartbeat...
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2012, 10:45:35 pm »

It was probably due to how taming works now.
Or maybe the croc's personal space was violated.
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bombzero

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Re: Best fort I've ever had, collapses in a heartbeat...
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2012, 10:59:34 pm »

It was probably due to how taming works now.
Or maybe the croc's personal space was violated.

Told you not to put Steve McUrist on crocodile taming...
(not still too soon is it?)
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misko27

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Re: Best fort I've ever had, collapses in a heartbeat...
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2012, 11:01:13 pm »

It was probably due to how taming works now.
Or maybe the croc's personal space was violated.

Told you not to put Steve McUrist on crocodile taming...
(not still too soon is it?)
No, its okay now.

I can imagine that. They get angry if cooped up, maybe that was it? and the kill order escaleted it past "harmless violence".
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Mr.Muse

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Re: Best fort I've ever had, collapses in a heartbeat...
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2012, 11:24:18 pm »

It was probably due to how taming works now.
Or maybe the croc's personal space was violated.

Told you not to put Steve McUrist on crocodile taming...
(not still too soon is it?)
No, its okay now.

I can imagine that. They get angry if cooped up, maybe that was it? and the kill order escaleted it past "harmless violence".

As I recall, the tamer was level 14 or more in Taming.  Also pretty sure the croc showed as being *Tame* when it went wild.

I took couple minutes admiring it's combat log before sending in my military.  It had gone through 3 dwarves, one- or two-shotting them all.  Also became enraged at some point.

I guess my past experiences with taming dragons made me cocky.  I'll think twice before trusting the "Tame" tag again.
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misko27

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Re: Best fort I've ever had, collapses in a heartbeat...
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2012, 11:30:39 pm »

It was probably due to how taming works now.
Or maybe the croc's personal space was violated.

Told you not to put Steve McUrist on crocodile taming...
(not still too soon is it?)
No, its okay now.

I can imagine that. They get angry if cooped up, maybe that was it? and the kill order escaleted it past "harmless violence".

As I recall, the tamer was level 14 or more in Taming.  Also pretty sure the croc showed as being *Tame* when it went wild.

I took couple minutes admiring it's combat log before sending in my military.  It had gone through 3 dwarves, one- or two-shotting them all.  Also became enraged at some point.

I guess my past experiences with taming dragons made me cocky.  I'll think twice before trusting the "Tame" tag again.
No, what I meant is tht if animals are stuck in a confined space, they get violent. Regardless of tamedness. Still, I don't think that was it.
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Drazinononda

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Re: Best fort I've ever had, collapses in a heartbeat...
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2012, 01:13:32 am »

I had some cave crocs caged and tamed from prior goblin attacks

I think that's your problem. I haven't tried it since the training updates, but from what I've seen around the forums, taming mounts from other civs is still wonky. I think they're still considered "enemies" under some circumstances, even after training. That's the only explanation I can think of for why the croc attacked its handler.
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nomad

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Re: Best fort I've ever had, collapses in a heartbeat...
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2012, 07:02:05 am »

LOG:
The Stray Cave Crocodile latches on firmly!
The Stray Cave Crocodile shakes The Dog around by the left rear paw and the severed part sails off in an arc!
The left rear paw is ripped away and remains in The Stray Cave Crocodile's grip!



somehow i think in the real logs it would say the stray dog...
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Mr.Muse

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Re: Best fort I've ever had, collapses in a heartbeat...
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2012, 11:32:19 am »

LOG:
The Stray Cave Crocodile latches on firmly!
The Stray Cave Crocodile shakes The Dog around by the left rear paw and the severed part sails off in an arc!
The left rear paw is ripped away and remains in The Stray Cave Crocodile's grip!



somehow i think in the real logs it would say the stray dog...

For an unclaimed dog maybe.  I believe that was a named pet however.
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