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[RedWarrior0]

Hey, once I get mounted feats from a vestige, I have total dibs on riding the bear-paladin.

Wrex: If his CR is 63, how does a party of 100 HD greater deities not beat him? CR is defined as "This shows the average level of a party of adventurers for which one creature would make an encounter of moderate difficulty." So a level 63 party without ranks should be able to beat him every other time, which clearly is not the case.

Edit: I'm assuming Cosmic Ranks are the same as Divine Ranks, but renamed. If not, where do I find them?
Edit2: Also, XP comes with loot, typically.

[Taricus]

Anyway, how's the loot going Wrex?

[GreatWyrmGold]

Hey, once I get mounted feats from a vestige, I have total dibs on riding the bear-paladin.

Wrex: If his CR is 63, how does a party of 100 HD greater deities not beat him? CR is defined as "This shows the average level of a party of adventurers for which one creature would make an encounter of moderate difficulty." So a level 63 party without ranks should be able to beat him every other time, which clearly is not the case.

Actually, last I checked a party would have to burn 20% of its resources to defeat an average creature on its own of a CR equal to the party's level.
HD doesn't always mean ECL, especially when done poorly, and CR gets a bit tough at higher levels.

[RedWarrior0]

Hey, once I get mounted feats from a vestige, I have total dibs on riding the bear-paladin.

Wrex: If his CR is 63, how does a party of 100 HD greater deities not beat him? CR is defined as "This shows the average level of a party of adventurers for which one creature would make an encounter of moderate difficulty." So a level 63 party without ranks should be able to beat him every other time, which clearly is not the case.

Actually, last I checked a party would have to burn 20% of its resources to defeat an average creature on its own of a CR equal to the party's level.
HD doesn't always mean ECL

For a PC, though, unless they have racial HD or LA, it is. A 100 HD Greater Deity would presumably have 20 Outsider HD and 80 levels of classes, unless I'm terribly mistaken.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Forgot to clarify: The difference between four min/maxing adventurers of 63rd level and four 80th-level adventurers played the way they were originally imagined, even with divine ranks and some outsider HD, is pretty big.

[RedWarrior0]

The Hecatoncheires is CR 57. It's killable. Dispater, as presented, should not be close to that number, much less 63. I can see it before you throw in ranks (Much less FIFTEEN of them).

[Grek]

The Hecatoncheires is also significantly over-CR'd.

[Mlamlah]

I don't think the Hecatoncheires is very well thought out, it takes the logical process of "oh! 200 attacks is formidable!" and tries to apply it to gods, all of which have some pretty hefty damage reduction. Unless those Hecatoncheires greatswords are +4 or higher that thing is incapable of doing a damn thing to even a lesser god.

Edit: Come to think of it, i'm of the opinion that the Epic Players Handbook was full of suck, it had a couple neat chapters, but everything else was sub-par at best.

[GreatWyrmGold]

It tackled the difficult problem of balancing play past 20th level. Granted, it failed, but still...it's not like it was child's play.

[RedWarrior0]

Eh, it had the same problem as core. Except exacerbated. Namely, that normals can only do normal stuff unless sufficiently badass, and casters can do anything, because magic. I recall a discussion on GITP of what level monk (with L20 WBL) would be needed to beat a level 20 wizard. I'm pretty sure the eventual decision was "No."

[Wrex]

The thing about Dispater is that you have to come get him, and your divine powers come to nought while you are within the radius of the tower, at which point you explode. The current strategy i've seen it to try to make Hell part of the prime material plane, thus no longer having Dispater in Dis.


You should get enough XP to get you halfway to fourth level. Loots is forthcoming.

[Taricus]

AKA the bastard cheats with a home-ground advantage.

[Hanslanda]

The thing about Dispater is that you have to come get him, and your divine powers come to nought while you are within the radius of the tower, at which point you explode. The current strategy i've seen it to try to make Hell part of the prime material plane, thus no longer having Dispater in Dis.


You should get enough XP to get you halfway to fourth level. Loots is forthcoming.

That. Is awesome.
"Okay, to kill this guy, we need to rip asunder the boundaries of the planes, and make Hell part of the Prime Material Plane."
'So we need to cause the Apocalypse to kill this guy...?'
"Well, technically, yes. But we'll totally fix it if he dies by our hand, I promise."

[Wrex]

So, treasure! Before I feel any less like doing anything...


+1 Animated Heavy Steel Shield
Exordius. It registers as +1, with something...else.
A belt. Indentification reveals that it posseses healing powers, giving 3 casts of "cure serious wounds" per day.
5 potions of "Endure elements"
5000 GP worth of general trinkets, gems, and odds and ends.

Divvy it up as you choose! The goods are worth 9000 gold in total. You may, of course, elect to take a share in gold and immediately spend it, or sell a magic item.

In addition: Do you keep the book? Or give it back? It could posesse untold power....but the noblewoman is willing to grant a tract of land in exchange, and who can guarantee you can tap it's power without going mad?

[Hanslanda]

I can't really use the shield AND Exordius, so if someone wants it, I'll give it up. But I'm keeping Exordius. I feel we are destined for great things together.