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[Dariush]

The best and only change you should do is change to another gametype and never ever mention this mockery again.

[Mephansteras]

I wasn't given a link?

Huh. Sorry, thought I'd sent that to everyone.

[Toaster]

I guess we never took the possibility that Leafsnail had an extra HP.  Doh.



I think the lack of scumchat means everyone is flailing around a bit.  It was an interesting experiment, at least, but I'm unsure on how I feel about it at the end.

[ToonyMan]

Holy damn Leafsnail you are the best.  I will never lose any mafia games at this rate.

[Urist Imiknorris]

I knew it would happen. When town looks like they've already won, they will get screwed over.

[Leafsnail]

I compiled a list of problems with the setup in my head as I played.  Then I managed to directly contradict half my points by winning, but here they are anyway.
- The traitors were pretty much at a complete disadvantage.  The town outnumbered them and had a confirmed player, making them an informed majority.  I suppose the balancing factor was meant to be the ability to ninja the Prince, but without very lucky deadlines or roles it would be almost impossible to do this without getting a majority first.  This could be solved by referring to the other points.
 - I kindof contradicted this point by winning, but my victory required a lot of luck.  If any other player had so much as considered the possibility that I was a stalwart guard that would've been the end.

- As Dariush said there wasn't really much difference between town and scum.  What we did was not so much scumhunting as "kill ourselves off in order from worst at arguing their case to best".  We all had no idea who our allies were, and a desire to not die... trying to identify scum under those conditions was difficult.  It became harder still as a traitor where you had to identify town and then attack those townies as if they were scum.  Giving the traitors at least some knowledge of each other (maybe each traitor could know the identity of one other traitor, or one central traitor could know the identities of all the others) would help.
 - But I did somehow get a traitor vibe of ToonyMan, which is why I avoided attacking him.  Tiruin I got wrong, oops.

- There was no sense of urgency at all with regard to phases.  The town could take as many turns as it wanted, undermining the idea of mafia as a time limited exercise.  Giving the traitors some kind of hidden action (like, the ability to secretly damage a town player other than the prince once in a while) would help.
 - If we'd just chilled out and allowed another phase to go by I wouldn't've been able to win.

- All roles other than Stalwart Guard/ Guard cannot be falseclaimed or hidden.  This is because of the "try to attack again" exploit I conveniently revealed on turn 6.  This isn't a big point on its own, but combined with the other points it means...

- ...the game was breakable, I think.  The thing that prevented it from being broken was the fact that nobody other than me seemed to notice the mechanics exploits.  Let's run a thought experiment: imagine that me and IronyOwl had our roles swapped.

I at the start of the game demand a massclaim.  Let's for the sake of argument assume that all town players respond truthfully (they should) and traitors can only lie about being a stalwart guard (if they lied about anything else they'd be outed).  I could then spend 2 or 3 phases confirming everyone's role.  The playerlist would then look like this, from my perspective:
Leafsnail - Prince, definitely town so doesn't need to die
Toaster - Swordmaster, 3HP
Jim Groovester - Shieldman, 4HP
Dariush - Stalwart Guard, 5HP
IronyOwl - Guard, 4HP OR Stalwart Guard, 5HP
Tiruin - Swordsman, 4HP
Caz - Swordsman, 4HP
Deathsword - Shieldman, 4HP
ToonyMan - Crossbowman (I think the same exploit would work for crossbowmen), 4HP

Then all I'd have to do is gradually reduce everyone to except me to 1HP (or 1HP/2HP in IronyOwl's case).  Then, using a similar plan to the one we had on the last phase, kill everybody.  It would maybe be possible for scum to rebel, but it would be extremely difficult and rely on them happening to be near the end of the "kill everybody" plan.  In addition if Tiruin went down it wouldn't really be possible for any other traitor to reduce me to low enough HP to beat me at that point.

Holy damn Leafsnail you are the best.  I will never lose any mafia games at this rate.

That is what it means to be King.  The former-Prince would never understand that.

[Dariush]

trying to identify scum under those conditions was physically impossible.

FTFY.

I'm thinking - what would have happened had all scum instaclaimed on D1 and either piled onto IO or defended the crossbowman who would wear him down?

[Mephansteras]

Good points.

Not sure what to do about the role proving. I could 'hide' the result until the end of the phase instead of stating that they failed, but that just delays things slightly.

Adding in hidden abilities could be cool. Maybe giving the Traitors each a one-shot small ability. That'd add some risk and make it much harder to 'break' the game, since you couldn't count on things working to plan. A one-shot Block (preventing someone from acting at all for a turn) or the like could really change things.

I also like the idea of each of them knowing one other traitor. Or maybe even just knowing the alignment of another player, so they'd either know someone was traitor or town for sure.

[Leafsnail]

Oh wait I forgot to gloat.

It's funny that my enemies are eliminating each other?

I'm thinking - what would have happened had all scum instaclaimed on D1 and either piled onto IO or defended the crossbowman who would wear him down?

We would've lost.  There were 6 points worth of attack in the town and 3 points worth of defence in the traitors (excluding ToonyMan who wouldn't be able to defend himself).  Therefore he'd only be able to survive for one day.  Traitors would need to get very lucky with the deadlines to pull off an assassination.

[Tiruin]

Note: I was useless in helping Traitors. The only way I saw was to attack near-deadline. You know my take on that already.

Still, a concept of who could outscum the scummy town. Leafsnail summarizes good points. We were at a balanced play there - numbers with Loyal > Traitor.

Oh wait I forgot to gloat.

It's funny that my enemies are eliminating each other?

That right belongs to Toaster. Until the last part.

[IronyOwl]

Damn it. I even mentioned needing to bring Leafsnail down another point, but I wasn't paying attention and was kind of focused on the scum probably being Jim or Toaster.

I fucked up.

[Urist Imiknorris]

We would've lost.  There were 6 points worth of attack in the town and 3 points worth of defence in the traitors (excluding ToonyMan who wouldn't be able to defend himself).  Therefore he'd only be able to survive for one day.  Traitors would need to get very lucky with the deadlines to pull off an assassination.

Toony could have gotten three attacks off if he ninjad the deadline for the first.

[ToonyMan]

I should have ninja'd instead of right after turn start.  I am an inexperienced solider that let the moment get to his head.  This would have lead to Tiruin not outing himself as well, since I wouldn't show up my last turn alive until the very end.

EDIT:
You could say my single shot allowed Leafsnail victory though.

[Jim Groovester]

The Prince, IronyOwl, has sustained 1 Wound, and was then slain by the Traitor Leafsnail!

Derp.

[Leafsnail]

Toony could have gotten three attacks off if he ninjad the deadline for the first.

Which is exactly one less than we need.  It'd also require a lot of luck considering that Meph deadlines tend to be fairly soft and unpredictable (ie if there were townies around at the time they'd attack Toony before deadline).

I should have ninja'd instead of right after turn start.  I am an inexperienced solider that let the moment get to his head.  This would have lead to Tiruin not outing himself as well, since I wouldn't show up my last turn alive until the very end.

EDIT:
You could say my single shot allowed Leafsnail victory though.

It was unblockable so it didn't matter as much as Tiruin's attack.  At least the weird situation somehow allowed me to look town compared to everyone else.