Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[zombie urist]

No talking after day end. 

[zombie urist]

I'm sorry everyone, I fucked up day end. I missed Scottzar's extension request, so Captain Ford shouldn't have been lynched yesterday.

Everyone wakes up from sleeping. Except for Nabic, because he's dead. It looks like a zombie punched him a few times and then ate his brains.

Looking through the remainder of his grey matter, you determine he was a human.

Nabic has been killed! He was a vanilla town.

MrCelt is replacing in for Kingfisher1112.

Day 3 will end Tuesday, November 12th at 9:00 PM PST.

[Shakerag]

MrCelt: I'll get this out of the way first - Please read the thread, give me your overall impressions of the game so far and your top two scumpicks please.

Mr. Groovester:  I know you have maths up the butt, however your D2 performance was ... sub-par.  You didn't vote, and you barely scumhunted.  Get your apron and spatula handy, because I want to see you start grilling.

[Captain Ford:  Way to hang yourself there.  Unintentionally, I assume.]

Flandre:  You've had time, let's see your responses.

Everyone:  Post moar, newbs.

Scottzar:  Are you going to continue to vote for Flandre?  If so, re-state your case please.

[MrCelt]

Shakerag: I'll get onto that now. - I'm not an idiot; (have played some browser mafia before).

EDIT W/READS:

The Cop has not yet outed or died. They're probably lying low with a bunch of innocents. - I personally have a cop read, but I will not out it.

Shakerag/Groovester Appear to both be fairly aggressive towards eachother, When I read I noticed them clashing a lot. - Shakerag was voted by Captain, who flipped mafia. Seems fairly clear, Groovester on the other hand does not have this advantage on their side.
Flandre has taken over the role of Mr. Zero - From what I read of Mr. Zero, I consider him to be more of a newbie townie that a mafia - Also voted Captain ford when there was no bandwagon, not something a mafia would usually do.
Scottzar: Appears to be lurking quite badly and voted Mr. Zero who at the time was voting Captain Ford. - I'd like a reason for this.

Kingfisher1112:
Captain Ford [2]:  Nabic, Shakerag
Flandre [1]: Scottzar
Nabic:
scottzar:
Jim Groovester:
Shakerag:

Not voting: Kingfisher1112, Jim Groovester, Flandre, Captain Ford

[Shakerag]

• Edits - Editing posts is prohibited. Do not edit your post for any reason, even if your post comes out as a trainwreck of formatting, spelling, punctuation, and/or grammar. The preview button exists; use it.

[MrCelt]

• Edits - Editing posts is prohibited. Do not edit your post for any reason, even if your post comes out as a trainwreck of formatting, spelling, punctuation, and/or grammar. The preview button exists; use it.

Will keep that in mind next time.

[Scottzar]

Scottzar: Appears to be lurking quite badly and voted Mr. Zero who at the time was voting Captain Ford. - I'd like a reason for this.

You're right, I have been lurking badly. I was waiting for Flandre to post and you to be replaced in, because an extension had just been passed so I could wait, and then the day magically ended.
When I checked back earlier D3, there was nothing to really respond to. And Flandre still needed to post, as they do now.

Have you read the thread? I was voting for Mr.Zero because of how badly he responded to my pressure. When CF joined in, it seemed slightly off, but I was more concerned about seeing Mr.Zero's scumhunting and clearing his name before I pressured CF; after all, its hard to pressure someone for supporting you unless they are mindlessly bandwagoning, and at that point in the game the extra threat of another vote was valuable in forcing Mr.Zero to post. E.g. this reasoning right here seemed fine.

When I cast my vote, I was hoping to evoke an immediate reaction. I didn't expect Mr.Zero to suddenly become busy. So that didn't work. Unvote.

I'll be honest, and say that in retrospect, Captain Ford was scummier than I thought, but I still would have Mr.Zero was more likely to be scum before CF flipped.

Shakerag was voted by Captain, who flipped mafia. Seems fairly clear, Groovester on the other hand does not have this advantage on their side.

Shakerag also voted CF before CF voted Shakerag; D1 Shakerag didn't end up voting because he unvoted off of CF towards day end. See, what you are saying here doesn't stand up to logic, as if Shakerag and CF were a scumteam, wouldn't pressuring each other to look like town be logical?

This is called WIFOM. If they buss each other, they look town. Ergo, scum buss and thus anyone in a deep arguement is suspicious. Hence, scum should avoid bussing. Thus, bussing is un-scum-like, and scum should always buss. -> etc. etc.

Also voted Captain ford when there was no bandwagon, not something a mafia would usually do.

Once again, I really dislike how you assume scum should always do things which are classically scummy, when in reality it is the opposite; scum want to look like town more than anything else, so they should do things town normally does, not what scum 'usually do'.
It's just plain bad reasoning, because it assumes the scum team are terrible and the town aren't a legion of noobs, which generally they are in a BM game. You can't rely on town looking more like town than scum, because scum are actually trying to look like town whereas town are (generally) apathetic about their image so long as they can make actual scum look scummier.

MrCelt: give me more detailed thoughts about the interactions between Shakerag and Captain Ford. It's your only read on him ATM, so I'd like to see what you are really getting from it.

Scottzar:  Are you going to continue to vote for Flandre?  If so, re-state your case please.

Not at this moment, no. I was more voting Flandre for pressure, and the post which has since been edited out had a good set of questions in it, IIRC. Obviously, I want to see the post again, but I don't need to vote to know that they have scumhunted.

My case on Mr.Zero really had more to do with ratio's than anything else. In comparison to how long he spent defending from my pressure, he barely scumhunted. The fact that he voted me was semi-justifiable if he said I was tunneling, I suppose, but more than anything else it was how lazily he attacked me that I got out of that vote, as opposed to him fabricating reasons.

Really, if he had put half the effort into his scumhunting and driving a lynch on me as he did on his vehement defence of himself, I wouldn't have had a case on him.

Flandre: you've got a lot of scumhunting to post. You even admitted it yourself. Let's see your post: you should easily have had time within the next 8 hours.

[MrCelt]

This is called WIFOM. If they buss each other, they look town. Ergo, scum buss and thus anyone in a deep arguement is suspicious. Hence, scum should avoid bussing. Thus, bussing is un-scum-like, and scum should always buss. -> etc. etc.

I know what WIFOM is, but my experience is that scum only attack fellow scum when the spotlight is on them or their enemies - However I can see where you are coming from.

More detail into my Shakering/CF read:

Shakerag  Why the massive lurk bro? also, you contributed very little in Shoes Vs. Mr Zero. In fact you stuck with your vote on Captain Ford. Tell me, What were you trying to achieve?

Kingfisher brings up the point that Shakerag is lurking quite a bit. - Adding the question: What were you trying to achieve by lynching Captain?

He answers it replying with:

As I stated at least more than once, I've been rather busy RL.  Mr.Zero struck me as newbtown moreso than scummy, and Shoes I was feeling more iffy about as the day came to a close.  First of all, I didn't have a vote in at day end, and secondly even if I had kept my vote on CF, why would that matter?  If he was the person I thought was most scummy, then why should I have changed my vote to Mr.Zero or ShoesandHats

In this situation, the easy option would be to vote shoes or zero, adding in confusing comments to dissuade town but he was resilient in his 'scumhunt' and would not flip to those he thought were townish. - Even when it meant he would stand outside of the crowd in the spotlight.

I'm here.  I didn't end the day with a vote because I got too busy to re-read to the extent that I wanted to.  Not that it would have made a difference, looking at the day end vote tallies.  I'll try and squeeze in something more today/tonight, because I'll be gone all day tomorrow.

Doesn't appear to want to be associated with the doctor lynch at all. - Rather passive, could be considered scummy. - comes up with an excuse for it. - Whilst counterproductive to my argument, I consider it necessary to place this here.

Scottzar: Briefly, What are your reads?

[MrCelt]

[Double Post]

[Urist Imiknorris]

• Edits - Editing posts is prohibited. Do not edit your post for any reason, even if your post comes out as a trainwreck of formatting, spelling, punctuation, and/or grammar. The preview button exists; use it.

[MrCelt]

• Edits - Editing posts is prohibited. Do not edit your post for any reason, even if your post comes out as a trainwreck of formatting, spelling, punctuation, and/or grammar. The preview button exists; use it.

G'damn it. It was a double post, what am I to do?

[Scottzar]

In this situation, the easy option would be to vote shoes or zero, adding in confusing comments to dissuade town but he was resilient in his 'scumhunt' and would not flip to those he thought were townish. - Even when it meant he would stand outside of the crowd in the spotlight.

I'm just going to say the following: it was late at day, very near end. Unless he uncovered a new slip, it would have appeared bandwagon-y to jump on someone (i.e. Shoes). If he was scum, he'd locked himself into a hole by being too busy to switch to join a bandwagon before it was apparent what it was.
He couldn't vote Zero, because that would cause a D1 NL, where NL's outside of MYLO or role-heavy decision making are amazingly pro-scum, especially on D1 due to lack of reads; forcing a tie would destroy his cover.

Also, again, you're giving meta-reasons as to why you think he is town. But if he was scum, he'd be acting in whatever way makes him appear the most town, regardless.

For what it's worth, my read on Shakerag is Town; he's clearly busy, but contributes heavily when he posts.

Scottzar: Briefly, What are your reads?

Order of suspicions + reasons:
Flandre: I had a case on Mr.Zero (massive focus on defending self, comparitivly tiny amount of scumhunting), and Flandre still needs to post to break that case.
MrCelt: Between all the replaces, there have been far too few posts of substance. Kingfisher also threw around attacks like confetti and reacted badly when asked to justify them. Maybe its just how he instantly backed off when questioned, which may or may not have been related to the question at all, but he really did seem to be playing very lazily and aggressively.
Jim Groovester: basically, he's too busy for me to really consider him town, because of how little scumhunting he is managing to squeeze through his schedule. No real scumtells on him, however.
Shakerag: has been leading the town well with his available time, and picking up on slips which others miss. Either he is flawlessly bussing scum who is going to stomp the town, or he is the hero we all deserve.

[Reverie]

I've read through the thread several more times, but compelling evidence either eludes me, or doesn't exist. I'll gladly provide you guys with the fruits of my labor (in all of its glorious mediocrity), but I think what we need to do is get people to talk.
Anyways:
Reads, reads, reads.

MrCelt: I see you as slightly scummy due to your predecessors making themselves scarce. I'm not going to build a case on you for something you can't explain, but I'll wait and see how you handle things.
Did Ford's vote on Shakerag compel you into thinking that Shakerag was town? With Jim and Shakerag in opposition (as you say), does this have any influence on your read of Jim as well?

Shakerag: Neutral (with positive leanings)--a tricky call. Your real-world commitment (or lurking, whichever the case may be), partial in-game dedication to ICing and high experience make you a hard read, but I will agree that solid material and outside influences such as Ford's vote helps a little in appraising you.
What was your impression of Kingfisher/Borno?

Scottzar: Neutral. You have been quite active, but spent most of your time hounding Mr. Zero before I replaced him. I keep getting caught up on your disappointment at not being able to interrogate Nerjin (which I am not thoroughly convinced isn't a scumtell). Your justification:

So, essentially, you're sad that your scumteam theory didn't pan out and that you didn't get the chance to really put Nerjin through the ringer, even though he was actually town.

Partially, but also because out of the three people I had a reason to believe were scum (Mr.Zero, Nerjin and ShoesandHats), 2 have flipped town and that leaves me with a completely unaccounted for second scum who I (at that time) had no leads on.

I can agree with an absence of leads, but I must ask:
Are you suspicious of anyone besides the late Mr. Zero? Who are your current scumpicks?

Jim: Slightly scummy. You are an experienced player and an IC, like Shakerag, so it's hard for me to get a decent read on you. It seems a little outside of the norm for you to withhold your vote, though, so that has some influence.
You did say earlier that Mr. Zero was your premier suspect in a pool of weak suspects. Do you have any suspicions other than with Mr. Zero and I? On another note, can it be a wise approach to town-hunt rather than scumhunt (ie. looking for town-tells and deducing scum through deduction) in difficult games such as these?



 

[Reverie]

EBWOP: Scottzar: Disregard my last question, since MrCelt asked you nearly the same thing.

[MrCelt]

MrCelt: Between all the replaces, there have been far too few posts of substance. Kingfisher also threw around attacks like confetti and reacted badly when asked to justify them. Maybe its just how he instantly backed off when questioned, which may or may not have been related to the question at all, but he really did seem to be playing very lazily and aggressively.

All I can speak for is myself. You say yourself this is a beginner's mafia and will be filled with bad town. - I cannot argue for kingfisher, as I read his (and his replacement's) posts I consider him to be as you said, very lazy/aggressive. - But, I know my role, and therefore I know his.

Did Ford's vote on Shakerag compel you into thinking that Shakerag was town? With Jim and Shakerag in opposition (as you say), does this have any influence on your read of Jim as well?

Ford's vote on Shakerag does not say anything to me due to tactics such as bussing et cetera, if ford believed he may die, he could try such a tactic to effectively 'clear' Shakerag. however the way Shakerag plays suggests him being town. Yes, I realise he's an experienced IC. - With Jim and Shakerag in opposition, I definitely am able to get a better read off on Jim, but nothing that suggests him being mafia, however, given the experience of the two players, it is not impossible they are two mafia working together to effectively bus.

I cannot currently think of any questions to pose.