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yes

88 (66.2%)

no

7 (5.3%)

not really but whatever

15 (11.3%)

I guess so

12 (9%)

I don't know

11 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 132

[Wellincolin]

What would happen if you poured magma in a specific body part? How would the game handle it?

[vadia]

What would happen if you poured magma in a specific body part? How would the game handle it?

What happens when it gets poured on wagon?

[Wellincolin]

What would happen if you poured magma in a specific body part? How would the game handle it?

What happens when it gets poured on wagon?

I assume it's made of wood and will burn entirely. DF can handle that.

It's not a body part, though.

[Rtyh-C]

I think that it should be possible to define the size of a creature in the raws. Nothing fancy, I think something like [MULTITILE_SIZE=2 2 5] (x, y and z dimensions, in tiles) would work. Maybe even [MULTITILE_SPHERE] (that makes the multitile representation, well, round) and [MULTITILE_CYLINDER] options.

[vadia]

I think that it should be possible to define the size of a creature in the raws. Nothing fancy, I think something like [MULTITILE_SIZE=2 2 5] (x, y and z dimensions, in tiles) would work. Maybe even [MULTITILE_SPHERE] (that makes the multitile representation, well, round) and [MULTITILE_CYLINDER] options.

Somebody up for the !!modding!!?  Not I who can manage to bring down the whole game when I tried making mastedons (elephants with hair that were about 10x's the size)

[Lord_Phoenix]

in some ways the biggest problem with multi tiered creatures is the thin entrance.  If you don't want to deal with sir colossus, just make a 1 tile entrance.

Eh, it makes sense.  Perhaps they shouldn't be able to go down a small hallway.  Smaug couldn't go down the secret entrance Bilbo used to get to his treasure. 

With stuff like sappers/miners in sieges coming eventually it doesn't much matter because it could be feasibly applied to large creatures as well. 

Imagine this:  You really piss off a local dragon, he comes to your fort but can't get in, he paces around outside the entrance for a bit, maybe blowing fire down the hole, picking off the stupid ones that run out.  Eventually fed up with the cat and mouse game, he positions himself over your entrance, and begins clawing his way through the dirt into your fortress like some sort of giant anteater cracking open a termite mound.  Eventually he hits hard rock and can't go much farther, but he finds your farms before that and roasts your crops.  He eventually leaves, leaving an open pit behind where your entrance used to be.  You decide it's high time to put your blacksmiths to work creating armor plating (outer layer walls/floors built out of metal) to help defend against such attacks in the future.

[MrWiggles]

Multi Tile creatures isn't just making the creature take up more tile volume.

The wagon is a multi tile creature, but its a multi tile creature that avoids all the problems of multi tile creatures. It a terrible example to cite.

Without going back and scouring the Great Toad for all the things he said on Multi Tile Creatures (as its on the to-do list, but as per usual there no time line.)

Path Finding would need to be changed to accomodate multi tile creatures
-->And there would need to be solutions for exploiting Multi Tile Creatures inability to path  somewhere.
--->Such as not being able to get into your Fort if it only has a one tile wide entrance, or if an adventurer goes into a crevice that the creature cant fit into.


There would need to be a rather large addition or possibly a rewrite to combat.
-->The concept of Reach would need to be introduced.
--> The concept of relative sizes would need to be addressed. Right now Size isn't that well respected. Its possible dorfs to hit giants in the head.
---> In the old Dev Goals Toady One wanted to smaller creatures to be able to climb atop of larger creatures. (We're getting climbing so one step closer.)
---> Bodily Relationship would needed to be changed to respect which body part is in what  tile.
---> I also think there was a Power Goal, for a smaller creature to be swallowed whole then to slash their way out of the stomach.

Any sites which exist now, that would have multi tile creatures would need to be reworked to make allowance for them. (Which would probably be every site.)

[DNK]

Path Finding would need to be changed to accomodate multi tile creatures
-->And there would need to be solutions for exploiting Multi Tile Creatures inability to path  somewhere.
--->Such as not being able to get into your Fort if it only has a one tile wide entrance, or if an adventurer goes into a crevice that the creature cant fit into.

Wagons already can't pathfind into a fortress with a 1-tile entrance. Why does this need to be added? Seems like it's already in. I can press "D" and see where the wagons can path to easily...

[Telgin]

I imagine wagons have pretty specific behavior when it comes to this: find the trade depot and go there if you can.  It's probably not a large stretch to get generalized multi-tile creature pathing, but I bet there are cases that haven't been handled in the general case in code.

More likely the real problem is that it would make it too easy to deal with things like dragons.  They'd be thwarted by a simple forest because there are no complete 3-tile wide paths, for example (or however wide a dragon is).  So these creatures need ways to deal with these exploits, such as knocking over trees in the way.

[MrWiggles]

Path Finding would need to be changed to accomodate multi tile creatures
-->And there would need to be solutions for exploiting Multi Tile Creatures inability to path  somewhere.
--->Such as not being able to get into your Fort if it only has a one tile wide entrance, or if an adventurer goes into a crevice that the creature cant fit into.

Wagons already can't pathfind into a fortress with a 1-tile entrance. Why does this need to be added? Seems like it's already in. I can press "D" and see where the wagons can path to easily...

Wagons cant solve their own pathing issue, its up to players to solve it for them. The whole 'D' actually highlights its shit for path finding and how particular/restricted it is.

[RenoFox]

I think multi-tile creatures would have separate parts of their body in each tile. For example, a dragon might have its whole uppoer body in one tile, and lower body with its organs and appendages in another one that follows it like a mule follows a trader. A tall creature would be a stack of upper body on top of lower body. That would be an easy solution for two-tile creatures or giant snakes, but I've come to expect more throughout solutions from Toady.

The narrow entrances stopping large creatures is completely realistic, and turtling underground works only because the fortresses can currently be unrealistically self-sufficient. When we become more dependant of food produced by hill dwarves, we'll have more reason to drive off all kinds of blockades.

[i2amroy]

Path Finding would need to be changed to accomodate multi tile creatures
-->And there would need to be solutions for exploiting Multi Tile Creatures inability to path  somewhere.
--->Such as not being able to get into your Fort if it only has a one tile wide entrance, or if an adventurer goes into a crevice that the creature cant fit into.

Wagons already can't pathfind into a fortress with a 1-tile entrance. Why does this need to be added? Seems like it's already in. I can press "D" and see where the wagons can path to easily...

The difference is that a wagon checks to see if there is a path, and then it is instructed to follow it exactly. If anything changes then it just explodes rather then recalculate. The equivalent of using it's pathing for large creatures would be a dragon that would appear on your map, you would shut your doors, and then it would just die instantly.

[Charey Wolf]

Multi-tile creatures would also need a redo of the current lair system even a 2x2 creature couldn't move through the tunnels that are currently made.

[pisskop]

I think that maybe a compressed multi-tile creature design would be ideal.  Having read a portion of what's before me:

-I think one tile hould ideally represent 2m or 10ft.  either or.
-I think creature should be represented as hunched over as possible.  i.e. a 12ft monster humanid can hunch over to maybe 9ft.  So it is displayed as 9ft tall, and is bound to that demension for movement purposes.  Same with width.
-I think staircases and the like should have an effect of travel speed.  A hume would have some trouble climbing dwarven stair, and vice versa.  So when a bronze collossus does this I weep inside.
-I think that the largest creatures need either need multi tile ansi 'combinations'  or actual graphics.  one tile whales and quantum mechanics are annoying.
-I think the game should track rudimentry sizes.  L,W,H in addition to mass.

Would the game lag too much if attacks and projectiles were able to occupy differing areas in spacetime?  Like an arrow going one foot above a dorf's head?

[greenwatering]

couldn't there be a system where the graphic tile/ letter is split into regular parts, like if an elephant were to be a 3x3 creature the E could be split into nine portions and displayed like a big E? there wouldn't have to be problems with rotation. if you wanted to add things like height, you could just stack multiple z levels of the same image, possibly with different colors or shadings to denote the height of the creature.