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[Mechanixm]

So an update on the sorting...

Weapons Un-Sorted:


Weapons with sorting (I am taking your suggestions by sorting by the category/name of the item, and then subsorting them by their prefix or suffix adjective).

You see part of the problem I am running across...

There are what appear to be multiple entries of the same item, but this is not the case.  Yes, the entries in the RAWs have the same [NAME:...] tag, but for some reason the [ADJECTIVE:...] modifier isn't showing up in the stockpiles.  Does anyone know if removing the  [ADJECTIVE:...] tag and just making it part of the name will break anything?

For example, this is what I would like to do...take this:
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_BATTLE_UPGRADE_ONE]
[NAME:battle axe:battle axes]
[ADJECTIVE:runic]

and change it to this:
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_BATTLE_UPGRADE_ONE]
[NAME:runic battle axe:runic battle axes]

This will completely resolve this apparent issue of multiple items in the stock piles list appearing to have the same name.  Again, does anyone know if this will break anything?

Moving on...

Trap Components Un-Sorted:


Trap Components Sorted...again the same issue with the [ADJECTIVE:...] tag...

My OCD is acting up seeing Barbed Wire alphabetized by "W"   


Gloves Un-Sorted:


Gloves Sorted:



At this point I have finished sorting all of the ITEM RAWs, including:
ammo, armor, food, gloves, helms, instruments, pants, shields, shoes, tools, toys, trapcomponents, weapon magic, weapon throwing.

I want to get some feedback on the [ADJECTIVE:...] issue before I send the final RAWs over to Meph.

Also, if anyone wants to see what any of the sorted stock pile lists look like, just let me know and I'll post some screen shots for you.

-Mechanixm

[sayke]

i personally think that editing the name to disambiguate duplicates is a big deal - i note that i have two entries for tallow, and there are actually blank entries at various places in the stockpile lists...!

[fasquardon]

I am really liking the alphabetization project - I salute you Mechanixm!

In no particular order, my thoughts with regards to some of the issues raised in this thread:

I really do like the idea of the stone industry consuming blocks rather than boulders as their raw material - it has more realism (to manufacture useful items out of rock you'd want to cut the rock so you didn't have that crack that runs through the center of your boulder running through the center of your mug), speeds up fetching and carrying, and also makes rock industry slightly more complex.  In my current fortress I've not bothered with a metal industry at all, since I can make everything more easily from rock.

I like microcline being the colour it is.  Indeed, microcline mining is often one of the major activities of my fortresses, since I have more items I want made in electric blue than I have fortress rooms.  If the mod changes rock colours, I'd like it to be an option

I can't say I see the point in the fishfarm.  The way it consumes nets and fishing poles seems rather insane, and, since fish are vermin, they will turn up in any cistern.  My current fort's main cistern is fed from an aquifer, but my fisherdwarfs are kept quite busy catching the edible beasties that spawn in there.

With regard to ornamental brick...  I don't think it being in or out is a main priority.  If it is put back in, though I think it needs a different process for making it.  The way the old ornamental brick was made felt like free stuff, and unrealistic free stuff at that.  I reckon it would be better if MW had a glaze for each colour, and you could make the ornamental bricks in a brick oven with powdered glaze+clay->ornamental brick of appropriate colour.

If industries used blocks rather than boulders, then ornamental bricks would be even more useful.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who likes to make sure all my furniture is of pleasing colours. 

With respect to golems - since brass is almost the same as bronze in material properties, is putting in a bronze golem really that important?  If more golems are added, I would like to see gem golems though.

Something I'd like to see added in is bark.  It is a logical product of the "smooth logs" reaction and would also make a better raw material for making paper out of than the crushed logs that are currently used.

I think I saw on the other thread that slade was being removed.  Is that so?  I do like me my slade...

fasquardon

[Mechanixm]

I am really liking the alphabetization project - I salute you Mechanixm!

Thanks! 

I really do like the idea of the stone industry consuming blocks rather than boulders as their raw material - it has more realism (to manufacture useful items out of rock you'd want to cut the rock so you didn't have that crack that runs through the center of your boulder running through the center of your mug), speeds up fetching and carrying, and also makes rock industry slightly more complex.  In my current fortress I've not bothered with a metal industry at all, since I can make everything more easily from rock.

Yeah, me too.  I think I've convinced Meph to include this in the mod, but only time will tell.  It's certainly the way I will be playing in the future, even if I have to mod it back in to the game myself.  I have everything already setup...it's just a quick copy and paste and off I go with my blocks!

With regard to ornamental brick...  I don't think it being in or out is a main priority.  If it is put back in, though I think it needs a different process for making it.  The way the old ornamental brick was made felt like free stuff, and unrealistic free stuff at that.  I reckon it would be better if MW had a glaze for each colour, and you could make the ornamental bricks in a brick oven with powdered glaze+clay->ornamental brick of appropriate colour.

This is not a bad idea.  Write up the reactions and then put them on here and see if you can convince Meph to add it in.

[Mechanixm]

All righty...this is a no-brainer.  Look at how much better this looks:

Here is the sorted Trap List with the current [ADJECTIVE:***] issue
Page1 Page2

And here is what it will look like if I moved the stuff that's in the adjective tag to the name tag:

Sorting by Category then by Name


Sorting by just Name:



I was even able to fix a couple of the duplicate entries that weren't tagged properly due to the Trap Upgrade stuff.

Looks pretty sweet, right?

[Mechanixm]

I did the same thing for weapons.

(screen caps are just the first four pages of the Weapons List)

Pre [ADJECTIVE] Tag


Post [ADJECTIVE] Tag info moved to [NAME] Tag



After living in these RAWs for the past couple of weeks I have decided that there are way too many friggin' extra weapons, and just plain extra shit, in this mod. 

-Mechanixm

[dukea42]

Couple more quick raw bugs I noticed in alpha (sorry not going to signup for other bug tracking site - do enough of that in RL).

Training Hammers are using Skill MACE instead of Skill HAMMER
Meteor Hammers don't appear as a Dwarven entity weapon (hopefully not intended as I think most people see dwarves primarily has axe and hammer users, often both at the same time).

Now for some opinions on weapons:

Looking at the total "dwarven" weapon options...I love how most weapon groups have the Cheap, Professional, and Serious 2hander options (Chopping, Battle, Great Axes or Short, Long, Zwei swords).  To clean this up a bit, I think there needs to be a HAMMER_SMITH or something similar so there is a cheap metal hammer weapon (Smith, War, Meteor Hammers).  A smith hammer could also end up as a good requirement for advanced equipment (10% chance to break with smithing in the weaponry/armory/mithril/volcanic but required to make all advanced items).  Adding just a little more cost to high-end gear.

Also, for maces, make the 2h maul a spiked maul so it sounds better in the mace line (Mace, Morningstar, Spiked Maul).  All the other 2handers have some big names,  so just 'maul' seemed alittle lacking.

For Spears and pikes...  Move in Tridents to spears as the 2h and halberds to pikes (Spear 1h, Trident 2h), (Pike, 2h piercing, Halberd 2h cutting)  These make a clear difference to what is a spearman skillset only, and then pikeman is more of a 2h heavy specialist with polearms (maybe Lance as a 2h blunt option?)

Respectfully submitted.  Thanks Meph and team!
 

[sayke]

dukea42 - i second your suggestions! on a related note, i was really wishing that "greatsword" sounds a heck of a lot better then "zweihander", and it's in keeping with shortsword/longsword.

Mechanixm - do we have a sense for why exactly there are so many duplicate entries? like, even after you moved the adjective tag, there are still two entries for "viciously curved daggers", no?

[Mechanixm]

Mechanixm - do we have a sense for why exactly there are so many duplicate entries? like, even after you moved the adjective tag, there are still two entries for "viciously curved daggers", no?

It appears to have something to do with the different civilizations and the weapons they are allowed to use, or perhaps they were just carried over verbatim from the invader races from Defense Mod (copy/paste).  I'm not sure exactly...

Here are the ITEM Tags in question for Viciously Curved Daggers:
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_KHUKURI]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_EVIL4]

Maybe someone else can shed some light on this.  There are a bunch of different examples like this where one Tag is a generic name, and the duplicate tag is something along the lines of EVIL#, or something similar.

I propose we get rid of all these extra exotic weapons.  Yes they are neat, but do we really need to differentiate between Large Daggers and Viciously Curved Daggers?  What exactly do we gain besides flavor?  Are VCD totally OP GG?

[arclance]

^ I think the reason for the duplicate types is as much for flavor as it is to have some races make the same weapon with different stats.
This lets a specific race make a better or different version of that item than another.

If you look at the two example daggers you can see that ITEM_WEAPON_KHUKURI has one more attack type than ITEM_WEAPON_EVIL4, "[ATTACK:BLUNT:250:4000:strike:strikes:pommel:1000]".

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_KHUKURI]
[NAME:viciously curved dagger:viciously curved daggers]
[SIZE:200]
[SKILL:DAGGER]
[TWO_HANDED:27500]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:5000]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:1]
[ATTACK:EDGE:2000:1000:slash:slashes:bent blade:1500]
[ATTACK:EDGE:5:1000:stab:stabs:NO_SUB:1000]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:250:4000:strike:strikes:pommel:1000]


Code: [Select]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_EVIL4]
[NAME:dagger:daggers]
[ADJECTIVE:viciously curved]
[SIZE:200]
[SKILL:DAGGER]
[TWO_HANDED:27500]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:5000]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:1]
[ATTACK:EDGE:2000:1000:slash:slashes:bent blade:1500]
[ATTACK:EDGE:5:1000:stab:stabs:NO_SUB:1000]


I think something like this would be a good way to resolve the duplicates

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_KHUKURI]
[NAME:viciously curved dagger - Khukuri:viciously curved daggers - Khukuri]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_EVIL4]
[NAME:viciously curved dagger - Evil:viciously curved daggers - Evil]

It would probably look weird in the combat logs though.

[Meph]

Excue me everyone, but my DSL is delayed till the 24.10 (last date they told me) Havent been here in a while, but Mechanxim, PLEASE, dont tell me you did this for the raws of 1.9.5, and not the alpha raws ? (I am expecting some sort of super-gau as answer, but I hope I am wrong)

[zenerbufen]

Excue me everyone, but my DSL is delayed till the 24.10 (last date they told me) Havent been here in a while, but Mechanxim, PLEASE, dont tell me you did this for the raws of 1.9.5, and not the alpha raws ? (I am expecting some sort of super-gau as answer, but I hope I am wrong)

It's good to hear from you meph! several people where getting worried about Mephs out alone biking across the world, and we havn't heard from him in a few days? everythings fine don't worry. Meph is safe at home relaxing? OMG somethings wrong. MEPH IS MISSING!? haha

[Meph]

Well it is easier to focus on something when you lead a simple life. Here, first world, all kinds of distractions. Too many choices so to speak I put all my pc related stuff (gaming, website, collecting infos for tours, etc) on ice till I have DSL.

[Mechanixm]

Excue me everyone, but my DSL is delayed till the 24.10 (last date they told me) Havent been here in a while, but Mechanxim, PLEASE, dont tell me you did this for the raws of 1.9.5, and not the alpha raws ? (I am expecting some sort of super-gau as answer, but I hope I am wrong)

I did all of the inorganics and emailed all that to you for the Alpha version.  I did the items for 1.9.5 because there was a large discrepancy between the 1.9.5 item raws and the Alpha Raws, and basically because I actually want to PLAY the game.  I haven't played a fortress in almost 1.5 months right now and I'm Jonesing put the whoopin on someone, and I want to play with everything all nice and sorted.   Plus, the majority of the ITEM Raws for Alpha are not complete.  The Shield RAWs have like 5 items in there...that can't be right...

Don't worry, I'm keeping everything nice and separate and I'm taking excellent notes of all the small things I'm noticing.  Once you're able to take a look at the inorganics and workshops I sent you, get me some feedback and we'll go from there.

[lwCoyote]

Training Hammers are using Skill MACE instead of Skill HAMMER
Meteor Hammers don't appear as a Dwarven entity weapon (hopefully not intended as I think most people see dwarves primarily has axe and hammer users, often both at the same time).

IRL at least, a meteor hammer is a type of ball and chain weapon and not really a hammer at all.. Im not really sure if it would fit as a 'dwarven weapon'