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[Loud Whispers]

EDIT3: Unarmed, unarmored dwarf beats up elephant skin. The skin barely even got in any attacks, and those it did only bruised. It seems that A. skin has been overrated in deadliness, if not in number or distraction; and B. elephants do not have hair.

Reanimated skin is a joke ^_^

And I'll think you find most people don't have problems with skins, so no warning labels there. They're mostly a nuisance and only a threat to the naked, unlucky and babies. Have you been attacked by goose skins? Hilarious.

So...gear beats size when fighting skin. Also, all of your hype about the undeads' power was sadly (?) an exaggeration.

It takes a great deal more than that I'm afraid to prove their power wrong. Because you know, coming back to life kinda helps. People have destroyed the HFS with zombies. Zombies are good at killing Dwarves. You seem to be constantly trying to downplay them and saying something like as long as you wear steel it's perfectly fine to go hug some zombies. Then you die.
Because arena mode is still not Fortress mode.

[Stromko]

I can't believe no one suggested this. The solution is magma. It doesn't leave teeth, hair, skin, arms, heads, or anything else for that matter that can be resurrected.

It does take time to get the magma up to your depot, I know, but it sounds like you've got the undead locked out so you could just hold them off until you're ready.

Or it could be much faster to just build a magma-flooding room just above the magma sea or some other convenient location, so you'd only need one pump to flood it (or a retractable bridge over the magma sea, if you don't need to recover magma-safe items on the invaders), and dig a passage up to the outside from there that has to go through the trapped room.

I'm of the opinion that fighting the undead while there are still necromancers about is indeed foolish, especially if the necros are scripted to avoid melee dwarves (so the chances of sending a suicide-dwarf out there to spot them isn't even very good). If this were the old DF versions where training champions was simple, I'm sure a military solution would be the best option, but it takes damn near forever to get skilled military dwarves now.

[Di]

EDIT3: Unarmed, unarmored dwarf beats up elephant skin. The skin barely even got in any attacks, and those it did only bruised. It seems that A. skin has been overrated in deadliness, if not in number or distraction; and B. elephants do not have hair.

Elephants don't have hooves, horse hair has and when you fight hair attacks will often glance away or pass through, so it's like fighting poltergeist wielding four hammers.

Indeed, a dwarf can hold out against reanimating water buffalo hair and skin for a while with nothing but bruises and maybe some lost teeth.

Come back when you conduct at least 50 of such tests. And may I remind you that win/loose ratio of 50/50 wouldn't be considered an argument to call them undangerous since it'd be unacceptably high for an enemy that can rise in hundreds.

To the op, if you're unable to flood world with magma immediately as Stromko suggests, try at leas to dump one minecart of magma outside, maybe resulting grass fire will kill necros or set zombies on fire, which will destroy the corpses after you shoot them down.

[GreatWyrmGold]

EDIT3: Unarmed, unarmored dwarf beats up elephant skin. The skin barely even got in any attacks, and those it did only bruised. It seems that A. skin has been overrated in deadliness, if not in number or distraction; and B. elephants do not have hair.

Reanimated skin is a joke ^_^

And I'll think you find most people don't have problems with skins, so no warning labels there. They're mostly a nuisance and only a threat to the naked, unlucky and babies. Have you been attacked by goose skins? Hilarious.

So...gear beats size when fighting skin. Also, all of your hype about the undeads' power was sadly (?) an exaggeration.

It takes a great deal more than that I'm afraid to prove their power wrong. Because you know, coming back to life kinda helps. People have destroyed the HFS with zombies. Zombies are good at killing Dwarves. You seem to be constantly trying to downplay them and saying something like as long as you wear steel it's perfectly fine to go hug some zombies. Then you die.
Because arena mode is still not Fortress mode.

When you say that buffalo hair kills dwarves, then they punch off limbs and take down elephant skin, you're exaggerating.

EDIT3: Unarmed, unarmored dwarf beats up elephant skin. The skin barely even got in any attacks, and those it did only bruised. It seems that A. skin has been overrated in deadliness, if not in number or distraction; and B. elephants do not have hair.

Elephants don't have hooves, horse hair has and when you fight hair attacks will often glance away or pass through, so it's like fighting poltergeist wielding four hammers.

...Horse HOOVES. As in, made out of hoof. Buffalo and harse hair can't even stand up.
Besides, elephant kicks are plenty deadly.

Indeed, a dwarf can hold out against reanimating water buffalo hair and skin for a while with nothing but bruises and maybe some lost teeth.

Come back when you conduct at least 50 of such tests. And may I remind you that win/loose ratio of 50/50 wouldn't be considered an argument to call them undangerous since it'd be unacceptably high for an enemy that can rise in hundreds.

Seeing as how the dwarf came out almost entirely OK...while I was disproving a specific claim that buffalo hair could kill dwarves. Buffalo hair can only bruise dwarves, as it lacks hooves and the ability to not fall apart. Stop misrepresenting my work!

To the op, if you're unable to flood world with magma immediately as Stromko suggests, try at leas to dump one minecart of magma outside, maybe resulting grass fire will kill necros or set zombies on fire, which will destroy the corpses after you shoot them down.

Fire doesn't cross grassy ramps; you'd need to send out a flaming dwarf across all of the outside's z-levels to do that. It also doesn't cross rivers or anything.

[megahelmet]

There's the vampire solution. If you have one. Zombies won't attack vampires. So you can send out a vampire militia to search around willy nilly. If you don't have a vampire...I'm sure one will eventually show up with some migrants. You'll spot him easily. He'll be the one not ripped to shreds by zombies.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Hm, I hadn't thought of that. What you need is a ravenous vampire who secretly drinks the blood of his fellow dwarves, so you can send him out to look for a necromancer who wants to destroy your fortress. That could, scarily enough, work.

[Loud Whispers]

When you say that buffalo hair kills dwarves, then they punch off limbs and take down elephant skin, you're exaggerating.

No, I'm not exaggerating. And for the record skin =/= hair.

...Horse HOOVES. As in, made out of hoof. Buffalo and harse hair can't even stand up.
Besides, elephant kicks are plenty deadly.

Yes, but hair in DF can push with deadly force. This is all proven in Fortress mode.

Fortress.

Not arena.

Fortress.

Seeing as how the dwarf came out almost entirely OK...while I was disproving a specific claim that buffalo hair could kill dwarves. Buffalo hair can only bruise dwarves, as it lacks hooves and the ability to not fall apart. Stop misrepresenting my work!

No, that doesn't prove it. It only proves that you got a Dwarf to kill some buffalo hair in arena mode.

To the op, if you're unable to flood world with magma immediately as Stromko suggests, try at leas to dump one minecart of magma outside, maybe resulting grass fire will kill necros or set zombies on fire, which will destroy the corpses after you shoot them down.

Flaming zombies... Use with caution

Fire doesn't cross grassy ramps; you'd need to send out a flaming dwarf across all of the outside's z-levels to do that. It also doesn't cross rivers or anything.

Toady made fire cross zlvls IIRC now

[GreatWyrmGold]

When you say that buffalo hair kills dwarves, then they punch off limbs and take down elephant skin, you're exaggerating.

No, I'm not exaggerating. And for the record skin =/= hair.

Skin is heavier and has feet on elephants. Also, I showed what happens with hair earlier.

...Horse HOOVES. As in, made out of hoof. Buffalo and harse hair can't even stand up.
Besides, elephant kicks are plenty deadly.

Yes, but hair in DF can push with deadly force. This is all proven in Fortress mode.

Fortress.

Not arena.

Fortress.

Sorry, I don't buy it. I only have your hearsay. I'd at least need a post by someone else reliable, and some reason why fortress mode would skew the results more towards the hair than in arena mode before considering my results invalid. Even then, it had better be some pretty good post and reason...

Seeing as how the dwarf came out almost entirely OK...while I was disproving a specific claim that buffalo hair could kill dwarves. Buffalo hair can only bruise dwarves, as it lacks hooves and the ability to not fall apart. Stop misrepresenting my work!

No, that doesn't prove it. It only proves that you got a Dwarf to kill some buffalo hair in arena mode.

Didn't you say earlier that they had AVERAGE stats in arena mode?
Besides, if you can't go past bruising muscle, you're not going to kill. Especially since it lacks feet!

To the op, if you're unable to flood world with magma immediately as Stromko suggests, try at leas to dump one minecart of magma outside, maybe resulting grass fire will kill necros or set zombies on fire, which will destroy the corpses after you shoot them down.

Flaming zombies... Use with caution

Zombies...deal with with caution.
Also, I didn't say that.

Fire doesn't cross grassy ramps; you'd need to send out a flaming dwarf across all of the outside's z-levels to do that. It also doesn't cross rivers or anything.

Toady made fire cross zlvls IIRC now

Oh, really? I missed it.

[dhoovr]

Yeah, zombies are pretty bad. I lost my last fort to a water buffalo corpse. Note: if you're on a terrifying biome, pit the wagon animals in magma as fast as possible. I decided that I should let them graze on the floor of the third cavern instead.

Anyways if you have cats and you're willing to risk the emergency food supply try dropping cats on the area where the zombies are being reanimated. If you can't drop cats from above, for whatever reason, try building a room connected to the outside by a door, set the door to locked and not let animals pass, put some cats in there and some necro bait, then unlock the door. Hopefully the zombies wont path to the cats or if they do hopefully the necromancer is faster. Once the necro opens the door it should be greeted by cats who will then proceed to alert the fort of it's presence.

[Tirion]

Hair can kill dwarves? My "Was attacked by the dead recently" dwarf-hardening mission just got a lot more complicated. Are shells taken from vermin fish (turtles, technically) similarly deadly? If the deadliness is based on creature size, maybe not.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Hair can kill dwarves? My "Was attacked by the dead recently" dwarf-hardening mission just got a lot more complicated. Are shells taken from vermin fish (turtles, technically) similarly deadly? If the deadliness is based on creature size, maybe not.

Arena tests suggest that hair can't kill dwarves. The rest of the critter often can, though. Whole corpses? No contest. Shells can probably only push, but get enough of them in a reanimating biome and throw in some "real" undead...

[Roonerspism]

try this

1. order the construction of many cages, mechanisms, 3 doors, 2 lever
2. mine a very long hallway to the outside, don't mine a square that lets zombies enter and mine 2 tiles off of the very end
3. set a pasture 1 tile there and seal it off wit a fortification, that will alert you of the necromancer(s)
4. set up the cage traps in the hallway and put 2 doors in on opposite sides of the hallway, and connect them with the lever, make sure they are open
5. put 3rd door in as a second entrance into the hallway and connect it to the second lever, this door should be closed
6. have a miner open the last tile, make sure he runs back in the fortress, the necro(s) and zombies will route into the fortress
7. when a necro is spotted by the cat s/he will run away, have your archers target him/her
8. before zeds enter the fortress close the doors, have solders enter through 3rd door to kill uncaged zeds
9. remove and replace cages, repeat (if needed)

it is safer than sending out an untrained army, and faster than making a lava pump, and best of all it is reusable

[GreatWyrmGold]

Do you mean cage traps? That could work, but I like my idea better. Weird, aren't I?

[Loud Whispers]

Skin is heavier and has feet on elephants. Also, I showed what happens with hair earlier.

It's also skin. Which is eassssyyy to kill.

Sorry, I don't buy it. I only have your hearsay. I'd at least need a post by someone else reliable, and some reason why fortress mode would skew the results more towards the hair than in arena mode before considering my results invalid. Even then, it had better be some pretty good post and reason...

How unfortunate. Then until our saviour ever shows up, you'll also have to accept I'm trying to give advice here, one that doesn't involve getting all the live Dwarves killed.

Didn't you say earlier that they had AVERAGE stats in arena mode?

Relevance?

Besides, if you can't go past bruising muscle, you're not going to kill. Especially since it lacks feet!

And here comes the fallacies

Zombies...deal with with caution.
Also, I didn't say that.

You said set the surface on fire with the express purpose to burn the necros and zombies. Seriously?

Do you mean cage traps?

4. set up the cage traps in the hallway and put 2 doors in on opposite sides of the hallway, and connect them with the lever, make sure they are open

[Roonerspism]

Do you mean cage traps? That could work, but I like my idea better. Weird, aren't I?

Your idea would work but you can't be shure when a vampire will come to the fortress