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[Errol]

it is funny because those where the same arguments for civ iv against civ 3. but it's simpler! look, no pollution! but it is streamlined! less micro and more management!

Aside from the fact that there were many system changes from CivIII to CIV that made sense and made it a better game in my opinion. City maintenance instead of building maintenance is a stroke of genius, improvements are far more than just farm/mine and roads everywhere (nope cottages are not built EVERYWHERE. or, at least, there are enough alternatives and complementary stuff), the specialist system makes perfect sense as well and the stack combat is also a bit better, even though it's still not the game's strong suit. Religion adds some depth to diplomacy, and diplomacy makes more sense. I like civics, too, unhealthiness, hell just about every mechanic they introduced or overhauled. People sat down and thought about things, and improved many of them.
Oh, greater modability, too. That led to gems like Fall from Heaven or RfC.
Global warming is rather awkwardly handled, though, and espionage wasn't executed flawlessly either.

From CIV to CiV there is basically the combat system, which I so far have zero complaints of even if the execution is meh. Quantified strategic resources are spot on as well. But a lot of other things are kind of :/

well, to be honest it is only with BtS that there is enough meat to make it interesting.

Sadly most modern strategy games only get good after their second expansion or so. Ex: HoMM5, EU3, Civ4 kinda as well. Let's see what the second expansion brings for Civ5 (and HoMM6 as well, btw, that is another game that looks very promising)

[Aptus]

I'd say no on the worth it question. CivIV with BtS blows it out of the water in every respect in my opinion.

[Vendayn]

I personally like Civ IV the best, it has amazing mods. Like Fall from Heaven II...or the one I use, based off of it...Master of Mana. I love fantasy stuff, so having a fantasy overhaul mod is great. Skip to the bottom for the end of my...rant or whatever it is.

Civ V is good too, though. I have Civ V + Gods and Kings. I like how there isn't ultra stacks of doom...but the modding seems a lot weaker, even with non-fantasy stuff. I can barely find any overhaul mods for it on Steam workshop, in fact there is only one listed and it isn't for Gods and Kings. And even the custom maps don't show up properly in-game.

Having said that, I got Civ 3 (which I don't like at all, but it was only 3 dollars)...+ Civ IV and all expansions + Civ V and all DLC (not Gods and Kings), for 20 or 25 dollars on the Steam Summer sale. And I was gifted Gods and Kings for my birthday.

That summer sale though was awesome and was what I was waiting for. I think it totaled 140 or 150 dollars or something, and it was on sale for 20 or 25 dollars. Plus the Civ V expansion gift. I probably wouldn't have got any of it otherwise...except maybe Civ IV, but even then I was waiting for it to go on sale anyway. Since it goes on sale quite often.

TLDR-

In any case, if you aren't sure...can always wait for a sale on Steam. Personally, I only like Civ V because my friend and I play multiplayer, I never play it otherwise. I like Civ IV + Master of Mana, a lot more and have put a lot more hours into it. And even if you aren't into fantasy, there is so many other mods for Civ IV. Civ V really lacks any modding, I'm not sure if it is the modding tools that are lacking...or it just doesn't have a big modding scene...or both.

[lordcooper]

It's almost as if by naming the game "Civ 5" they were presenting it as a sequel to the previous game in the Civ series, and that implies a certain level of continuity in terms of how the games play and what players should expect from them.

Played Slaves to Armok 2 lately?

[BurnedToast]

I'm gonna say no (but keep in mind, I don't have gods and kings).

The AI is just... bad. I mean real bad, just completely and utterly terrible. It's so bad they had to give it massive cheats - for example, no matter the difficulty the AI has effectively unlimited happiness allowing him to ICS.

They dumbed down the city management/strategy portion of the game in favor of 1upT, but unfortunately they forgot to teach the AI how to use it's units, so it's a complete waste. It's not uncommon to kill AI units at a ratio of 10 kills for every unit you lose, and after a while your units get so promoted they can just steamroll the enemy cannon fodder with minimal damage. Once you get a 3 range unit (either highly promoted early siege, or beat the AI to artillary) it's pretty much over for him because he can't deal with that... at all.

Also, diplomacy? completely and utterly broken. Civ4 might have been too easy to make allies, but civ 5 AI hates you for everything you do or don't do. For example: AI asks you to join his war, that makes him like you right? wrong, joining his war makes him hate you more because now he thinks you are a warmonger. For joining the war he asked you to join.

I just can't recommend it.

[LoSboccacc]

to be fair, never ever seen one civ where diplomacy made any sense.
'no I won't be your vassal because we had war and now I hate you' wtf? it is not like I'm asking!

'no I wont trade aluminum because you had unit on my borders 3 freaking thousand years ago' 

[Flying Dice]

I think most people disliking civ V are trying to play civ V as if it were an updated civ 4.

you should approach it with a clean mind and play it as a hexagonal war game with a deep resupply simulation, not as a shallow empire simulation with deepened combat.

This is exactly how I took it as well. Civ III was a empire sim; Civ V is a strategic-level wargame with resource management in the background.

[Karnewarrior]

I liked civ V more than civ IV. It feels deeper and more engaging than the previous civs, where at most you did diplomacy with a talking head. Speaking of diplomacy...

Also, diplomacy? completely and utterly broken. Civ4 might have been too easy to make allies, but civ 5 AI hates you for everything you do or don't do. For example: AI asks you to join his war, that makes him like you right? wrong, joining his war makes him hate you more because now he thinks you are a warmonger. For joining the war he asked you to join.

I've never had this happen to me. There's no negative to saying no, so I just usually say no. That and I try hard to have lots of allies quickly. The worst part of diplomacy in this game is the Denounciation Spiral, where one civ, well liked, denouces you, pushing another civ into denouciation and the combined effects pushes another civ into denounciation until eventually everyone hates you. But hell, that's a good approximation of what happens IRL politics!

I'd wait for a sale, myself. I don't buy things that aren't on some sort of sale since Steam has sales every day of the year. It's bound to come up sometime. And soo after that G+K will be on sale. GET IT. It improves what was a fairly good but not great game into a wonderful game. Mods too! I use the unofficial patch, R.E.D. Modpack, and Tempo Temporal to make my games feel more realistic to me. Of course, this also makes them take foreeeevvvveeerrr. I'm in one right now I've been playing for two hours every day on average. For almost two months. But it's been incredibly deep and these kind of games always end up with something completely unique. In my personal game, both Spain and Sweden have been turned into glorified city-states of one city each, although my scouts nearby sweden show me that he has a settler headed slightly west of him, on the coast. Go sweden go! You can make yourself not pathetic!... Well, actually, no you can't unless you somehow hit the new world before France/polynesia/carthage/celts/greece/anyone else. But I would expect it.

This game is awesome and sid should feel awesome and make a new expansion pack to fix that denouciation spiral I mentioned.

[Glowcat]

To those wondering where the overhaul and other major mods are:

The Civ5 DLL files have yet to be released, so any deep modding isn't available. Once (if?) those are release you'll probably start to see some of the great mods which made Civ4 legendary.

[lavenders2]

To those wondering where the overhaul and other major mods are:

The Civ5 DLL files have yet to be released, so any deep modding isn't available. Once (if?) those are release you'll probably start to see some of the great mods which made Civ4 legendary.

Like Pitboss, on the forums it has been stated that both Pitboss and the DLL files will be released in the future, so I definitely have hope for a shiny future for this game. Someone is bound to add the complexity of Civ4 back in and all will be well

On an added note, like everything else in the game, you must take diplomacy in Civ5 another way. To me, it is actually very good, and there is a strong sense of challenge. There can only be one winner (except in games set up with teams!) and the AI will not let you win. It will go to war with you if it has to in order to beat you. Players who generally stay in the middle of the scoreboard will have an easier time diplomatically. I really really do like the fact that the AI will not just watch you win the game and will try and defeat you through war.

Because war is the only way to effectively cripple another civ, it makes it one of the best ways to resort to beating your opponent into a pulp... okay, the only way. What would help is if there were other ways to take down an opponent. For example, civ rev had culture flipping, where the culture of one cities borders exceeded another cities borders so much that the city with less culture flipped over to the other side. Maybe in terms of science you could even have science flipping or people leaving the city with inferior science to the city with better science because it has a better education or whatever. When war is the only way to impact another civs score, it makes it the best thing for the AI to resort to so it can beat you.

I would also like to remind the true fans how broken Civ4 was on launch. Bts fixed that game, and maybe Civ5 hasn't had its Bts yet. But Gods and Kings certainly was a great effort.

For those who are still on the fence about this game, I would say get Civ 4 but definitely consider this instead if this is on sale because it is the game with better potential in my eyes. Civ 4 is practically done, Civ 5 has a long way it can go still.

[Oliolli]

The worst part of diplomacy in this game is the Denounciation Spiral, where one civ, well liked, denouces you, pushing another civ into denouciation and the combined effects pushes another civ into denounciation until eventually everyone hates you. But hell, that's a good approximation of what happens IRL politics!

I've yet to see that happen. I always see something more comparable to the Cold War, where there is a group of x civs on one side who you are on friendly terms with and a group of y civs on the other side you are not on friendly terms with. All your friends are friends with each other and dislike your enemies, your enemies are friends with each other and dislike your friends. Both groups have denounced all the civs in the other group, and both groups have defensive pacts with everyone in the group.

[Karnewarrior]

The worst part of diplomacy in this game is the Denounciation Spiral, where one civ, well liked, denouces you, pushing another civ into denouciation and the combined effects pushes another civ into denounciation until eventually everyone hates you. But hell, that's a good approximation of what happens IRL politics!

I've yet to see that happen. I always see something more comparable to the Cold War, where there is a group of x civs on one side who you are on friendly terms with and a group of y civs on the other side you are not on friendly terms with. All your friends are friends with each other and dislike your enemies, your enemies are friends with each other and dislike your friends. Both groups have denounced all the civs in the other group, and both groups have defensive pacts with everyone in the group.

That happens alot too. It's me and frances WTA against the Netherland WTA right now in my game. The west is powerful in size and money...

But the Inca will have nukes. And then the war with the Dutch shall come.

[forsaken1111]

There we go. A straight up question. Worth it for £20?

Simple answer: Yes

[Karnewarrior]

Also, when you get 2 luxury resources, everyone tries to make a decleration of friendship with you.

about 20 turns later: 'can we have this X plox'
say yes: they're happy, and you lose 1 luxury resource.
say no: your trustworthiness goes down and thus people are more likely to denounce you. yes, you appear to have a trustworthiness hidden statistic. low trustworthiness, you get denounced. if a friend/very chummy player denounces you, it drops massively.

Well it's not like you're probably going to use that 30 extra units of silver anyways.


What I don't like is that Iron becomes useless and just kind of clutters up the screen after the renaissance. As with Horses after combustion. I wish there was a way to make those disappear after no units use them. I had an idea for a mod that made units keep costing resources like that, and Combustion makes Horses a luxury resource. So your destroyer needs 1 oil and 2 iron and your 16 horses (there's always a shitton of horses) make your people +4 points happier.