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Author Topic: Self study.  (Read 1728 times)

Skyrunner

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Self study.
« on: August 19, 2012, 02:42:04 am »

Hiya all. Since I might as well ask the opinion of the internet than asking the opinion of a probably biased hakwon tutor, here I am.

I live in Korea, the Republic. Not the Democracy. :P I am in sophomore year (= 10th grade), second semester here, since it starts in March, not September. I want to go to an American college, and get a BS, and maybe a Master's if it would benefit me well. I wish to perhaps major in computer science. Well, it's all fine and dandy, but there's a myriad of small or large problems. For one, I believe American colleges (from hereon, "college" always means American ones) want your GPA. Korean colleges want your percentile. So Korean high schools make it extremely hard to get a B or an A, since K. colleges only need your percentile, your relative position among the others at your high school. However, this problem can't be overcome by anything, I suppose, so it's not really a question; just a point to reference, I guess, or blowing steam.

Another is that there are no AP classes at regular high schools. How could I go about preparing for AP exams without a course teacher?
Just another tidbit of information: it seems that the few high schools that do offer both courses and exams often refuse to take external people who aren't students of that school for any and all AP exams.

Third, I suppose I'd want SAT II' tests, but I believe those are offered readily, and besides I have already tried it, and it's not too bad. o.O
Forth, the SAT itself, but again "easy" to prepare for, and tests everywhere.

Fifth, would there be an effective way to study while using as little time as possible? xD I know it's asking too much, but ... Well, school here is just that much longer, from six to six usually. Besides that, math hakwons are pretty much needed, and those eat a triad of hours every couple of days.

Sixth, a normal college-preparing question: What do colleges want from me? :S Participation in many school events, which there is an extreme drought of in Korea? Good GPA? Shining SATs? D:

Seventh, colleges seem to be extremely expensive—sometimes $45000 a year or more. ...Are they worth it? I heard of people saying that it's cheaper and just as effective to go to community colleges for knowledge, and sign up for classes at regular colleges if you want more expertise. I wonder how that works with someone like me who wants, or rather needs, for job qualifications, a bachelor's degree. I suppose that I'd need to go to a regular college for a future BS...


Hrng, now I have more questions about stuff like green cards and visas, but I think that's going ahead of myself...

Is it overly difficult to get into an Australian college from a foreign country? I have no information at all regarding that, but I think there's a whole different set of tests they want.

Another idle questions: do American companies dislike foreigner workers who don't have a permanent residence status?
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mcsafety

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Re: Self study.
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2012, 02:52:09 am »

[quote  author=Skyrunner  link=topic=115039.msg3537856#msg3537856  date=1345362124]
I want to go to an American college, and get a BS
[/quote]

-plenty of b.s. in america.. :P
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Re: Self study.
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2012, 03:06:52 am »

Judging by the Asian population  of my university (Monash, Clayton campus, specifically) there are precious few barriers to foreign entry (this could, however, just reflect that China has vastly more high school graduates looking for courses that Australia.)

Looking at the website, a Bachelor's in Comp Sci at Monash will run you about $72,000 (overall, that's 3 years' study) as an international student, assuming you don't fail anything (with the little coding I've seen you do you'll breeze it, I got 88 and 100 per cent for my first two IT units having never coded before in my life) and that all elective/free units you take are in the same band as IT (it can go up or down from there, I think)
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Skyrunner

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Re: Self study.
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2012, 03:10:44 am »

Ooh, which brings me to another point: how important is the university itself? Asians always seem to crow IVY IVY IVY, but I know that that's not the case all the time, because some schools are better at some things while others are the same at others... >.>

From what I've heard from people I met in my Korean community in the US, the college you go to for a 4-year degree isn't as important as the one you go for your bachelor's. o.O...
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i2amroy

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Re: Self study.
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2012, 03:34:27 am »

Pretty much all of my information here is geared towards the state college level. If you want to go to the fancy expenisve ivy league schools like Oxford and Yale then a lot of the rules and reg's become much more complex and all sorts of hoops show up that you need to jump through, as you are competing against the whole of America then instead of people mainly from one state.

The requirements for my college international student program are available in detail here for bachelors degrees. Basically they need proof that you can pay them for the first year, transcripts of all of your high school and any college school classes that you did in english and proof that you are competent in the english language (which can be shown on any one of several different tests). The ACT and SAT are two of these tests, and taking one of them can certainly help you to get a spot, but they are not necessarily a requirement. As an entering freshman they also require at least a 2.5 GPA in your classes.

As for AP classes, they aren't a requirement for enrolling. Basically all AP classes do is let you get done with your first year or so of college while you are in high school, therefore giving you more class slots to take classes that you want to take instead of the required ones. It is perfectly possible to get by without AP classes, and the majority of students will not have taken them when they enter your average state college, to the point where most college plans are designed for people who haven't taken them. If you do decide that you want to take any, I suggest checking around to see if you can get any of the many supplementary textbooks that people design for AP tests. When I was in high school, for example, I purchased both an "AP Calculus Testbook" and a "AP Physics Guidebook" both of which were written by independant authors and are designed to teach you the material that is tested without all of the extra stuff companies like to stuff into normal textbooks.In regards to taking the actual test itself, I believe that many AP tests offer ways to take them in your respective country, but I am unaware of the exact requirements and things that you need to do in order to do so, so you will need to find that information elsewhere.

6)Colleges want to know that you can pay them most of all, after that they tend to look at your GPA and a little bit at your SAT scores. In order of importance: Money>GPA>SAT, with them not really caring at all whether you were involved in school events or sports in the slightest. The fact taht you can pay them is the most important, with the fact that you have a good GPA (and therefore will stay in school long enough to pay them even more) is the second most important.

7)If all you want is an associates degree, then community colleges are fine. However if you want to go into the more competitive fields such as computer science or engineering a bachelors degree is almost a prerequisite. As such it is fully possible to go to a community college for two years, then switch over to a normal college for the last two years, but most universities smile more favorable upon students that come to them for all four years then students who transfer in halfway through. For costs the current estimated cost for normal international students is $35,700, with additional costs being required if you are unable to pass the english proficiency tests they administer. It is possible to get reductions in this number however, along with financial aid and other reduced tuition rates. Combine that with the fact that that cost includes both housing and food and if you find a place off-campus to live and shop at nearby stores and then cook your own food as opposed to buying their expensive meal plans you can probably cut a couple of thousand dollars off of that number. Of course the first semester you will probably end up living in the dorm (it being difficult to swing a lease from a foreign country), it can become cheaper once you are in your area and you can look around for better deals then the overpriced college ones. All-in-all I'd say that if you can afford it go for the four year plan, simply because it will be both easier to get enrolled into the college system and you will have more time to get to know your professors.

For green cards and visas I believe that once you are actually accepted to a college it is a fairly simple process to get the visa issued, it just is a lot of rubber stamping and other paperwork for the sake of recording everything regardless of the fact that you have basically already been accepted. I'm not 100% on this though, only knowing about the process from what I have heard from some of my friends from foreign countries.

Lastly american companies (at least in my area) try to hire american if they can, though part of that is because my state shares a border with mexico. Regardless of their opinions, going to college here in america is a huge bonus to your chances of being hired, as it's not uncommon for companies to hire students right out of college to come work for them. You can also greatly help this process along by getting to know your professors at the college. Most of them know people in the industries who are looking for new college students to intern or hire, and a good letter of recommendation from one of them can do wonders to getting jobs. One of the biggest things for getting jobs right out of college is who you know, and it's not uncommon for professors at colleges to be the one to set you on the way to your first job.

While going to a college an upper college does help, going to a state college can be almost as good and can be significantly cheaper to do. There are usually enough openings in many of the more popular fields such as engineering and computer science to take a large portion of state universities as well. There are even some companies out there that specialize in "new blood", hiring students out of college and keeping them for a few years, at which point the students leave and move onto other companies now that they have some experience.

Also 4-year degree≈bachelors. ??? Basically most college 4-year-degree programs are basically a program that is streamlined to get you your bachelors degree while making sure that you know everything you need to know. As I mentioned earlier it is technically possible to go to a community college for two years and then do a two year bachelors program at a university, but most universities prefer it if you go the 4-year route because not only do they not need to worry if you have actually been taught everything you need to know, but they get paid more as well, which makes them happier. As such often the amount of paperwork that you need to go through is larger if you do 2&2 instead of 4, but it's spread out over a longer period of time.

Woah, lots of text here, but this is most of what I know about the way that the state level of college works here in the U.S.
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Blargityblarg

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Re: Self study.
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2012, 03:40:21 am »

Ooh, which brings me to another point: how important is the university itself? Asians always seem to crow IVY IVY IVY, but I know that that's not the case all the time, because some schools are better at some things while others are the same at others... >.>

From what I've heard from people I met in my Korean community in the US, the college you go to for a 4-year degree isn't as important as the one you go for your bachelor's. o.O...

Australia doesn't really have an Ivy League to my knowledge; we don't have enough universities in the first place to have speicifcally awesome ones. There is a fairly significant degree of prestige difference between schools, though, mostly based on age and whether or not the university is also a TAFE (roughly equivalent to a community college). Monash is probably first or second in that hierarchy in my city (I have no idea about anywhere but Melbourne), it depends on the faculty. For IT, Monash is probably on top in Melbourne.
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MorleyDev

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Re: Self study.
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2012, 06:26:15 am »

I dunno about in America but in the UK the "prestige" of your University (at least with Computer Science) stops mattering about five minutes after you graduate. Heck, if you do a "work placement" (aka a paid internship) it stops mattering two years before you graduate. The employment process where I work is:

Send in C.V with Cover Letter that talks about how awesome a person you are whilst also listing your knowledge in the field. Be sent a programming assignment in response.
Go in for an interview with the programming assignment AND a presentation you created on a technical topic of your choosing.
If you pass the interview, you get to go in again for a paired programming session working on a small "Dojo" topic (it'll be something like "TDD a program to calculate the winning hand of a Poker game").
If you impress them more than the other applicants, you get the job.

University is just there to help you get the knowledge to do all of this :)
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 07:41:34 am by MorleyDev »
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Osmosis Jones

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Re: Self study.
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2012, 07:52:30 am »

With respect to rankings of Australian universities; U. Melbourne and the Australian National University top the charts.

For getting in, it shouldn't be overly difficult, but it may vary from university to university. My undergraduate was done at Curtin university in Western Australia, and they had a very large asian student body (predominantly Singaporean/Malay/Indonesian/Chinese) due in large part to directly targeting foreign students (they're more profitable).

Rankings to get into universities generally aren't that onerous, as long as you're averaging above 65% you should be able to get into most things besides law or medicine (those being more like 75-80%).

Standard bachelor degrees are three years, though some may take up to 5. Honours or double majors each add about a year, but if you get an 80% average or above in your honours year (or less, but it's... fiddly) you can generally go straight into a PhD without needing a masters.

Finally, if you do something like Chemical or Mining engineering, there is a truly unholy amount of cash to made in W.A.; you can be into the 6-figure salaries within a year of finishing your bachelors.

Downsides are; we have pretty strict immigration here, and they generally don't give much leeway once you stop being a student.
It's expensive here; I'm currently on a three month internship to Japan, which is apparently considered pricey, and it's cheaper than Oz.
It's an absolute bastard to go anywhere overseas; If you want to visit anywhere other than NZ, expect a loooong plane trip.
It's an absolute bastard to go anywhere overland; From Melbourne, nearest capital cities are at least 6.5 hours drive away. Don't even ask what it's like from Perth.
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Grek

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Re: Self study.
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2012, 08:05:09 am »

Where you get your BS doesn't matter, as long as you actually get one. Where you get your Masters does matter. PhD doesn't matter, since anywhere that is allowed to give PhDs is prestigious enough to wow people.
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Azthor

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Re: Self study.
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2012, 01:48:58 am »

Though a Bachelor's in a prestigious university would surely help you with a Master's, I must agree with the above user in that the later is far more important than the earlier, and I say that as an employer, though in a vastly different field.

Though the differences between the terminologies for college and university vary from country to country, whether a high-profile university is a better choice over a community college depends primarily on which plans you have laid out for your future. You might be able to do just fine with a community college if you are looking for regular employment, but an Ivy, for instance, can open a great deal of academic opportunities.

I am not much keen on academic work, mind you, but is unparalleled when it comes to building yourself up as a reference within your field, though there are a few cons, depending on your financial situation; namely, your initial income will be reduced as you invest time in furthering your studies and you might be stuck with a sizeable loan after graduation. Likewise, some of the more prestigious universities expect previous participation in different extracurricular activities and some depth of social engagement from would be bachelors.

As a rule of thumb, the quality of your specialization later in life usually overrides the value of that which forms the broader base of your early formation; it is perfectly feasible to pursue a Master's with an average college's BS, but your performance will have to be all the more exceptional; often, the institution's image and raw amount of funding and research value are far more relevant to their weight in your curriculum than the quality of the education they offer.

Excuse me for any would be typos, it is fairly late here.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 01:52:18 am by Azthor »
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crazysheep

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Re: Self study.
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2012, 02:03:17 am »

Australia doesn't really have an Ivy League to my knowledge; we don't have enough universities in the first place to have speicifcally awesome ones. There is a fairly significant degree of prestige difference between schools, though, mostly based on age and whether or not the university is also a TAFE (roughly equivalent to a community college). Monash is probably first or second in that hierarchy in my city (I have no idea about anywhere but Melbourne), it depends on the faculty. For IT, Monash is probably on top in Melbourne.
We might not have an Ivy League, but we do have unis which are close enough in ranking and talent, ie. the Group of 8 (Go8) unis.

-snip-
Finally, if you do something like Chemical or Mining engineering, there is a truly unholy amount of cash to made in W.A.; you can be into the 6-figure salaries within a year of finishing your bachelors.

Downsides are; we have pretty strict immigration here, and they generally don't give much leeway once you stop being a student.
It's expensive here; I'm currently on a three month internship to Japan, which is apparently considered pricey, and it's cheaper than Oz.
It's an absolute bastard to go anywhere overseas; If you want to visit anywhere other than NZ, expect a loooong plane trip.
It's an absolute bastard to go anywhere overland; From Melbourne, nearest capital cities are at least 6.5 hours drive away. Don't even ask what it's like from Perth.
Yay for chemical engineers :D
Although it's easier to go from Perth to Indonesia - friend of mine compared ticket prices, apparently with budget airlines it's roughly the same price to fly from Melbourne to Perth as it is to go from Melbourne to Bali. That's a tip for holiday destinations right there :P
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Re: Self study.
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2012, 02:12:38 am »

AP, SAT II, and SAT I are easy to 'study' for. Do every practice test you find. Every. Do them twice. Three times. Do as many practice problems you can get.

Colleges want a well rounded campus. Find one or two things you like that relate to what you want to study, and get REALLY good at them.
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Eagle_eye

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Re: Self study.
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2012, 06:38:04 pm »

From what I've been told, American colleges, or at least the more competitive ones, also like to see improvement: that you're doing at least as well sophmore year in highschool as freshman, at least as well junior as sophmore, etc. I have no idea if that's actually true or not, since I don't know anyone on a college admissions board, but it certainly can't hurt.

As for the SAT, going off of what it was like the last time I took it, make sure you have a really good grasp of geometry. It's a timed test, and the time is short enough that you probably won't have time to finish if you have to waste time experimenting or remembering things, and geometry made up a very large portion of the math section. For the writing and reading parts, just read english books, and a lot of them. Read books that are more complex than you're comfortable with (Though you seem to be pretty much fluent in english).


If you're applying to a top tier college, GPA does matter a lot. As far as I'm aware, a GPA over 4.0 is basically a requirement for colleges like Berkeley or Harvard.
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ed boy

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Re: Self study.
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2012, 06:46:12 pm »

Also, don't be afraid to ask the universities that you're looking at about help funding your education. I know that in the UK lots of universities have plenty of bursaries set aside for people who have trouble paying, and some have a bursary systems so large that they are able to ensure that nobody will be unable to go for lack of money.
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Skyrunner

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Re: Self study.
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2012, 08:48:53 pm »

Hopefully I can get a scholarship, or else I might not be able to pay >.>

The problem right now in front of me is simply getting a good GPA or percentile. The former is quite difficult, though... I think I'd need at least 10% or higher for a certain scholarship.

I don't worry about SAT Math, because Asian. :P More seriously, I did do Math II (subject test), so I think I'm golden for Math. The essay and the grammar section are what I'm worried about.
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