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[Adrian]

Mana is a pool belonging to the caster, which is used up as spells are cast. I was describing an opposite: A pool which belongs to a spell and which needs to be full for it to function properly.
Also, there don't have to be numbers in-game. It could be a background calculation.

I was suggesting it more so we wouldn't be able to spam asteroids on sieges.
"You want boulder-rain? Sure, but unless you want the ceiling in the dining hall to collapse you'd better have enough talented mages."

[GreatWyrmGold]

There's plenty of other ways to dissuade use of magic for everything from sieges to tantrum spirals. The general idea is good, though.

[dwarf_sadist]

When thinking of what types of spells can be brought into DF, I realized there already are spells in DF. Farm plots built underground are able to produce infinite food with fertilizer, re-watering or sunlight. If farms required a certain amount of fertilizer in order to produce food, then a spell to fertilize an area without fertilizer would be useful. There should be a certain amount of fertility in the land already, so your startup farms won't require a bag of potash or spell casters to start up. Maybe instead of a check for each tile, a simple check of the biome to see how fertile the playing area is.

EX: A fertile hill has 200 fertility in total, meaning that you may grow 200 plants without fertilizer. A good biome may regenerate fertility while a glacier may have none whatsoever.

Spell 0 - Scrying/Seer (DF, ADV, W)
Used currently right before embark, a scryer would check the land for any mineral deposits hidden underground, search for caverns and check for aquifers. A seer would check for hostile civilizations, evil biomes and land fertility. Each one could be used by a home civilization if they are capable of doing so. You'd also be able to use it somewhat like DFhack reveal cheat, searching underground for the caverns, minerals and gems, although with certain limits and restraints.

Spell 1 - Fertile Land (DF)
Cast on a fallow farm plot to allow that land plot one growing season without fertilizer. If cast in a ritual, it could increase the fertility of the region. Would help explain how a farm underground can produce food without fertilizer or SUNLIGHT!

Spell 2 - Dry Air(DF/ADV)
The air around the caster becomes dry, causing water to evaporate faster and from deeper levels. A level 2/7 water tile could start evaporating, 3/7, etc depending on the caster's level. Seriously, how is it that water can evaporate underground in the first place? Maybe make it a target spell against water tiles if area effects are too hard to do.

Spell 3 - Summon Vermin(DF/ADV)
Uses old clothing and food(such as cheese) to produce a swarm of vermin. The quality of food will determine the number of vermin produced. Used to help feed your cats during winter years.

While I am all for gems for spell casting, there should be more available regents to use, such as lumber, food, metal, water, booze, and blood. There should also be a mana, fatigue, and DnD style casting points for lower level spells to use.  Higher level spells should require higher level regents in order to use, but lower level spells could get away with using mana and fatigue.

Each spell would require casting point (for each spell) to reduce the number of times that spell can be cast, mana to reduce the total number of spells that can be cast and fatigue, to reduce the number of actions a spellcaster can make after they finish using all their mana. This will reduce the number of spell casters who, after casting their spells, goes about farming and creating crafts just like a normal dwarf.

PS: It seems that DF logged me out while I was typing my first draft of this. This is my second attempt to write this so I may of left out a few spells that I had thought of the first time. This draft is definitely worse than my last one.

[GreatWyrmGold]

First off, D&D uses Vancian magic, not mana points. The exceptions are psionics, which have debatable magicality, and possibly 4th edition, which I will not explain why I don't count. Make a new thread elsewhere and PM me a link if you want to discuss it.
Second off, underground air isn't at 100% humidity, so it can evaporate as well as it does in similar temperatures outdoors. Thus, the dry air spell isn't a replacement to a current "unrealistic" mechanic, it's a supplement to it.
Third, farming is a topic for another thread. It's magical now, won't be later, isn't supposed to represent magic, let's move on.
Finally, magic shouldn't be "Race X has access to spell Y if it does Z," it should be more procedurally generated.

[Pyro627]

Well, what's vancian magic?

[Adrian]

We should all read this Wikipedia entry on magic in games.
It really helps gain perspective on the different sorts of magic.

[Sus]

The OP's suggestion sounds just like every generic RPG. I'm against it.

Magic in DF is supposed to be a rare and subtle thing, not "Urist McWizard casts Fireball! It is super effective!" 

[Adrian]

I agree, but in the end all magic tragically ends up as ejaculating fire from your hands

EDIT, 5 seconds after posting: Unless DF magic is tied directly into the physical world.
Consider magic as only being able to manipulate the properties of objects/materials, as opposed to the object itself. (by substituting, adding or removing tokens)
The tokens could be represented by glyphs/runes/whatever so to change the size of a creature you'd need to find/learn the glyph representing the BODY_SIZE token.

This would also make the amount of different spells nigh-infinite.

[Courtesy Arloban]

The OP's suggestion sounds just like every generic RPG. I'm against it.

Magic in DF is supposed to be a rare and subtle thing, not "Urist McWizard casts Fireball! It is super effective!" 

I would not want it as the default system, but it would be nice if the magic system is moddable enough to implement Bradr's suggestion.  Since video games use a similar system it would make modding homages closer.

Leading Service (Divine) - Increasing Divine Skill
   ⁃   Divine skill is increased through Leading Service in appropriately designated area.
   ⁃   Divine magic points pool must be full.
   ⁃   If Divine point pool is full and service contains sufficient number/level/class of dwarves, divine skill will slowly increase.
   ⁃   If a dwarf does not have a full reserve of Divine magic points, they will not level up their Divine skill - they will recharge Divine magic points until their "pool" is filled.  Then their Divine skill will slowly begin to increase.

Why are so many people determined on turning priests into spellcasters?  I prefer thaumaturgists as a class of faithful laymen whose job is healing people and breaking curses, as well as the more usual tasks like building a mission or feeding the hungry.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Whatever form divine powers are in, they will probably be invokable by the priest at least some of the tine and will allow impossible effects. It's probably easier to base them off the same code.

[Courtesy Arloban]

Having divine power refilled by leading a prayer, effectively makes anyone who uses divine power into a preist.  This is not a neccesary requirement, divine spells can have other requirements.  Also priests have another function already, they don't need to invoke divine powers.

 In the modern world we have medical knowledge and training available to those who devote years of their life to learn.  Priests have their own duties and don't usually take the time to learn more than a very rudimentary knowledge of first aid.  If I am sick I go to a doctor instead.  In a warzone there might be a chaplain around, but he's not the one calling down an airstrike on the enemy, in fact he's not even required to be armed.  A medieval priest might take on the role of a healer, but most priests won't have this medical knowledge and the one who does will be referred to as a healer or physik for his profession.  Depending on the culture, the priest might be a warrior as well, but like before most would have priestly duties to attend to and the warrior priest would be called a defender or protector.

 Adding Divine magic to a world doesn't mean that the clergy would consider it their mission to become "Wisdom-Casters" even if they see divine magic as sacred.  Also in mythology deities don't neccesarily favor the preist class, the greek gods favored poets and musicians.

[GreatWyrmGold]

First off, find one reputable example of real miracles in the real world. Sorry to the religious types.
In a world where the most advanced medicine involves cutting out rotten flesh and setting broken limbs, and where the gods are real and willing to help their followers, the priests will probably be asked to heal. How much they can or will probably varies from priest to priest and from god to god.

Divine magic should not be a priest's primary purpose in the world, but it probably will be in the game. The church as a whole might have other purposes, but an individual priest in a fortress or joining an adventurer will be there to try and convert people and to grant some sort of miracles.

And as to certain gods favoring different things: Certainly, but even they'd probably be more likely to grant miracles to devoted priests than bards who were just sober enough to remember the gods' name. Besides, the two need not be mutually exclusive.

[Courtesy Arloban]

I gave you one, the miracle of modern science, in the form of medicine for healing and radio and flight for the airstrike example.  It actually owes its existence to the medieval monastery, but other than that it and priests have little to do with each other.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I gave you one, the miracle of modern science, in the form of medicine for healing and radio and flight for the airstrike example.  It actually owes its existence to the medieval monastery, but other than that it and priests have little to do with each other.

Modern science may be considered a "miracle," but it was not connected to God in any notable way. Not directly; priests may have helped, but God did not. If He did, he thinks in odd ways and conceals His work well.

[Courtesy Arloban]

I gave you one, the miracle of modern science, in the form of medicine for healing and radio and flight for the airstrike example.  It actually owes its existence to the medieval monastery, but other than that it and priests have little to do with each other.

Modern science may be considered a "miracle," but it was not connected to God in any notable way. Not directly; priests may have helped, but God did not. If He did, he thinks in odd ways and conceals His work well.

Let's see if I have this straight; because I have some doubts as to whether I understand you.

You don't believe in god.

The miracle I use must come from god.

You've got a grasp on history and have your own explanations for the miracles of the bible, so it has to be something else.  And the miracle of life and other such everyday experiences also do not cut it for you.

And this is all for the purpose of enlightening me as to why priests in a fantasy world must be magical instead of mundane?