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[WealthyRadish]

I can't decide whether I like EU3 or EU4 better.  I'm leaning towards EU3.

There's a huge list of mechanics I preferred in EU3. The policy sliders, economy sliders, ideas, province decisions, national focus, horde mechanics, agents generated and used rather than reused statically, earlier start date, supply/demand, (which was removed from EU4 recently for some reason), and a few other minor things. That said, I tried playing a bit of MEIOU again, and good god, rebels are so much better in EU4. For every good thing about EU3 it seems there's something I find horribly irritating that EU4 does much better, which is a bit of a shame.

What I'd personally like to see is a total conversion mod for EU4 that removes monarch points from the game entirely and replaces their uses with EU3-like mechanics, but I'm not sure how one would go about that.

[Vendayn]

I made Atlantis. Nearly finished. And finished templar order. Both for meiou.

Its definitely fantasy though, Atlantis. Might be an op navy, but it got late to test. But if so, its on purpose. The leader you start with is poseidon. Start with zeus as a general. Very good buildings on your starting island.

Probably be an incredibly hard province to siege. A lot of defense and strong navy. Troops will be weaker, might need to nerf troops, if they are too many/good. Cause I want Atlantis to be about navy.

Probably be boring as heck start though lol. Stuck on an island for a while, till you get exploration. But its sorta OP and killer navy. Take a huge fleet and enough troops to take island.

[Inarius]

monarch points

This .I don't like it, at all. It killed the spirit of EU3. I can't exactly say why, and how, but it changes the whole spirit of the game.

[Bouchart]

Worth pointing out that the diplomatic idea group is one of the best in the game (and was before the patch removing embassies). Province warscore cost reduction, the extra diplomat + improve relations bonus, 10% tech reduction, and +2 dip rep are all huge, and every other idea in the group is worth it as well (though the increased diplo-annex costs make me think that influence is often going to be the better 1st/2nd/3rd choice over diplo). Espionage also gets a diplomat, but is of course one of the worst idea groups.

I would also say that having 4+ diplomats is pretty great, if only because it allows for simultaneously integrating up to 3 small/medium vassals (to avoid that dip rep malus if timed correctly), and it makes coalition dodging in the HRE much easier. It's a shame the only good policy that gives a diplomat seems to be the one from exploration and aristocratic.

I don't know, I think I like Influence Ideas a little better.  -33% claim fabrication cost, +2 dip reputation,, -50% unjustified demands and +1 diplomatic relations are all pretty powerful too.

On a side note, does anyone have any opinion on the military ideas?  They all seem about equally powerful, except maybe Naval.

[Persus13]

Worth pointing out that the diplomatic idea group is one of the best in the game (and was before the patch removing embassies). Province warscore cost reduction, the extra diplomat + improve relations bonus, 10% tech reduction, and +2 dip rep are all huge, and every other idea in the group is worth it as well (though the increased diplo-annex costs make me think that influence is often going to be the better 1st/2nd/3rd choice over diplo). Espionage also gets a diplomat, but is of course one of the worst idea groups.

I would also say that having 4+ diplomats is pretty great, if only because it allows for simultaneously integrating up to 3 small/medium vassals (to avoid that dip rep malus if timed correctly), and it makes coalition dodging in the HRE much easier. It's a shame the only good policy that gives a diplomat seems to be the one from exploration and aristocratic.

I don't know, I think I like Influence Ideas a little better.  -33% claim fabrication cost, +2 dip reputation,, -50% unjustified demands and +1 diplomatic relations are all pretty powerful too.

On a side note, does anyone have any opinion on the military ideas?  They all seem about equally powerful, except maybe Naval.

I feel like Quality got buffed this patch, Plutocratic and defensive are really good, Aristocratic I only really go for as an Eastern tech nation for the Liberum Veto decision(or for the diplomat), and Offensive I've always felt to be kind of meh since Forced March got removed from it. Naval tends to be one I go for as a Mediterranean power because it buffs galleys. I've yet to play as Venice, but if I do, Naval would probably be a good one to grab as the galley combat ability idea combined with Venetian ideas makes galleys super powerful.

[Vendayn]

I like espionage Just a bit later down the line, definitely not my 1st...2nd...3rd and sometimes its the 4th but usually 5th idea I take (if i do).

I broke the HRE apart with espionage. I played that game like a CK2 game pretty much lol. Dunno if it was part of MEIOU or the game is just like that as maybe its realistic...but I had everyone hate Australia (the leader of HRE) and they all attacked him. Didn't think HRE would turn on the leader, but they did lol. On top of that, Austria (which was HUGE by the time I got espionage) had so many rebellions ( ) that it pretty much crumbled.

One by one I took down HRE In its place, Lithuania took the eastern part, and for some reason islam owned that game and took over spain and france. But couldn't beat england. Islam (mamluks still survived, and so did Fez) was also very advanced in tech. It outclassed me lol. But maybe I just sucked at it as it was my first game I did with EU4. In any case, they really owned.

And then my save corrupted

(edit: Early on, espionage is definitely rather useless (most of the time). I tried it as Byzantines to take down ottomans. And well, that actually worked VERY well...all of that area had massive rebellions and the entire area fell apart and I took over easily. Wasn't meant to do that good on a test game lol, but ah well.

Next game I tried Cilicia (the armenia guys), and tried espionage against mamluks. But it didn't do anything at all. No rebellions, nothing.

Could depend on the nation, maybe mamluks get high lower revolt risk or something. Or its random. But it sure worked as Byzantines that one game, ottomans (and everyone else in that region (that was islam) got crushed by revolts.)

Espionage is broken imo because of how easy it is to prevent rebellions from happening so long as you have no war exhaustion. Especially with lucky nations and such. The AI is smart enough to raise autonomy and the like so you generally don't have many rebel options or at least nothing viable. For instance vs the ottomans you'll generally be unable to encourage any orthodox rebels because they'll tolerate them. Any province with below 0% revolt risk cannot be affected by foreign support for rebels, so it's hard to upset the status quo. But at the same time the ottomans will slowly sink in religious unity because they only have like +20 now and will rarely convert.

I'll have to test it. But, I went into the espionage idea and buffed a bunch of stuff up. Should be a lot better. On top of making that one change to 1 year instead of 5 years (which 5 years? lame lol)

Hopefully that makes it improved. We'll see. I didn't change any idea around, just boosted up the numbers by quite a lot. Though I might add 2-3 new things to some of the ideas on top of what it has. But, I'll see if buffing it doesn't make it better. Might be OP now lol, but at least it would give a gameplay option to go down if that is what happens. Or it might still suck

[WealthyRadish]

Quantity is arguably the best idea group in the game, and is definitely the best mil idea group. All you really need are the first two ideas, and then congratulations! You're France. The rest of the ideas aren't bad, but are better left alone early in place of tech.

That said, I rarely take it. I like to take administrative as early as possible, and taking mil ideas early just causes horrible tech problems. Then with the 2nd and 3rd pick almost always being diplomatic and influence (in varying order), with religious 4th (or first, if the starting location really needs it), by the time I'm looking at a 5th group quantity is no longer worth it. By that point, oodles of manpower isn't good enough, and the cheap mercs of administrative are a good enough substitute. While I would say quality is a worse idea group than quantity, I actually think it's a better pick if you've already filled administrative and religious (the policy with religious + quality is insane). I'd even say defensive or offensive is better by that point, but it depends on how big you've blobbed.

In multiplayer it's a whole other cup of noodles, though.

[Eagle_eye]

I'm going to have to argue that humanist is the best in the game. It means no revolts for the rest of your days. Seriously, -10 years of separatism is huge. That, along with increasing autonomy is enough to drop revolt risk to zero in almost any newly conquered province. Combine that with lowered base unrest, way more accepted cultures, and almost guaranteed 100% religious unity, and you're set.

[Rakonas]

Does -10 years of separatism mean that you start revolt risk wise as if it's been 10 years since conquest?

[Exerosp]

Does -10 years of separatism mean that you start revolt risk wise as if it's been 10 years since conquest?

Yes.

[Erkki]

Unless I go for colonies early or play a large country(which is rarely) or go for early colonies/migrate to Caribbean, I usually pick first either Defensive or Offensive. Those leader pip bonuses of Offensive especially are great if the nation is a Republic as that means theres a free general(the head of the state) every 3 to 5 years and one never needs to fight a battle without one.

[WealthyRadish]

I think humanism is great, but I'm more a fan of the "religious enlightenment" and "punitive expedition" route. After all, rebels are just mercenary deaths, and mercenaries are just money. I think I remember playing with it once, got events converting provinces to random heretics, and then never took it again.

I used to like offensive, but then forced march got moved, so it got much worse in my opinion (and now that siege ability is so much less important now, I don't think there's any reason to take it anymore). Defensive gets that stupid OP morale event on top of its existing bonus (15% + 15% morale?!), making up for the other lackluster ideas.

Anyway, just concluded my cleanest annihilation of the Ottomans yet, in 1560 as glorious Montferrat (the OPM vassal of Savoy added in CS). Occupied until they bankrupted, took most of Bulgaria and Karaman's cores, and then broke truce a day later after releasing them. This is one of the reasons why diplomatic ideas are so amazing, incidentally. -3 stab for a truce break really isn't that bad, and in both wars I was able to demand 20% more land than I normally would be able to (not to mention the cheaper war exhaustion reduction paying for itself when call for pizza reared its ugly head).

[Aklyon]

So EUIV thread, I have a question for you people since I haven't played since a little before common sense came out, and was going to get it soonish. After looknig up some recent patch notes and the posts that come with them, I've heard both that 1.12 development costs were terribl(y expensive), but also apparently the beta costs are terrible in a different way, one that makes opms into tiny megacities all the time.

Which patch would be a better idea to use currently?

[Lapoleon]

So EUIV thread, I have a question for you people since I haven't played since a little before common sense came out, and was going to get it soonish. After looknig up some recent patch notes and the posts that come with them, I've heard both that 1.12 development costs were terribl(y expensive), but also apparently the beta costs are terrible in a different way, one that makes opms into tiny megacities all the time.

Which patch would be a better idea to use currently?

I haven't played the beta patch, but 1.12 is fine to play even though development is somewhat expensive. In 1.13 the AI tends to mess up by spending most of their monarch points on development which ends up with megacities everywhere which is much more problematic than the fact that you potentially create a 200 development province yourself.

[Uristides]

Is Hungary not being eaten and beaten regularly a thing now? Because I just saw it happen for the first time ever(nvm the HUD, I'm actually playing as Ainu, only jumped into Hungary for the screenshot). At some point in the 1500s Venice, Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and Austria got their territories back from it, but got conquered again. All said and done I play with Lucky Nations off, but even that didn't use to prevent Hungary from getting destroyed before.
Also Scotland colonized Brazil, but it's independent now.
And I cheated through my teeth first to resist Japan's aggression without having to give up Hokkaido, then to convert to Confucian because I couldn't accept demands nor get them to revolt and finally because I was bored and losing my soul would be quite worth it if I could only have Ainulaska and Ainustralia as colonies.
Still, development made my starting position a lot less painful. Usually I'd burn my bank fighting Yeren for Sakhalin and then drown in debt, now I could at least stay afloat and tackle Chukchi until Japan decided to move in.