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Author Topic: Amazingly Stupid Things You've Heard People Say  (Read 1043389 times)

kaijyuu

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Re: Amazingly Stupid Things You've Heard People Say
« Reply #5295 on: June 24, 2013, 01:08:52 pm »

I'm trying very hard to not paint ya'll as people who, when confronted with complaints that you're dismissing other's problems out of hand, dismiss them out of hand. LoudWhispers is the only one here making any sense to me, since he actually listed a problem other than "lol look at all the whining."


I apologize in advance if I'm misconstruing anything anyone is saying. I'm going to soapbox for a bit, and if you think "I'm not disagreeing with that" then just assume it doesn't apply to you (because it doesn't).


Discrimination is a thing that exists. If someone is labeled "weird" or "unusual" for any reason, very likely they're going to be discriminated against. It doesn't matter if they have control over it, or even if they want themselves to conform to what others want; they will be mocked, ridiculed, and thrown out.

There isn't a standard set of "valid" reasons people might have to complain about discrimination. It's not just race, sexual orientation, etc. It's pretty much anything others might pick up on and start mocking them for. Remember that bullying doesn't end after high school; it happens among every age group, among every set of people.

Some things are, in general, less mocked than others. You're more likely to be mocked and discriminated against due to race than, say, sexual orientation or gender. Other things might still be less problematic. This does not invalidate the lesser ones though. "Other people have it worse" is a horrible fallacy used to dismiss valid problems all the time. We should probably focus on fixing the bigger problems before the lesser ones (triage our time and effort, of course), but the lesser ones are still problems.

As such, your standard "normal" person (cis white male or whatever) has the least things to worry about in this regard. That doesn't necessarily mean they have an easy life, nor does it mean they can't have problems of their own. Just that their problems aren't as likely to be a result of discrimination or prejudice (though that's still possible, of course).

Now, some problems can be overblown. Some things can be taken out of proportion. Saying something racist or transphobic is bad... maybe it's not worth exploding into rage over, though. Maybe just taking the person aside and saying "hey, that was offensive" is good enough. Realize though that something Bad still happened and needs to be resolved somehow. And also remember that excepting outright harassment the person has the right to say something offensive, just like people have a right to call them out on it.

Finally, people have a responsibility to say what they mean. I'm not advocating political correctness here; I'm advocating saying things that can't be misinterpreted as something else. If you're a homophobe, I'd much rather you say homophobic stuff bluntly than in a veiled fashion. Makes it easier to call you out on your bullshit. Accidentally saying something homophobic or racist or transphobic or whatever is a problem and the fault is on the speaker, not the listener. That's what Mr. Krahulik did wrong (and what he's apologizing for), even though it's been established he himself is not a bigot.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

Criptfeind

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Re: Amazingly Stupid Things You've Heard People Say
« Reply #5296 on: June 24, 2013, 01:23:28 pm »

One thing though, at the end there.
Accidentally saying something homophobic or racist or transphobic or whatever is a problem and the fault is on the speaker, not the listener.

That's true, but the reaction is in the listener. And if it's not appropriate, it is something the listener has done that is wrong, and their fault.

Just something, that seems not always. Acknowledged.
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Amazingly Stupid Things You've Heard People Say
« Reply #5297 on: June 24, 2013, 01:27:16 pm »

I'm sure he still think that the people who sent him messages saying they hopes he dies for being cis are assholes, though, because they are!

So the new way to discredit any trans activists is to lump them in with the tumblr crazies as soon as they say the word cis? Good to know.
At the very least it's probably worth bringing up that trying to defend the crazies is a bad idea, because people will do this. Much like the police defending members that do bad things results in a negative image of the police as a whole, if you want good PR you have to keep your crazies and terrible folk at arm's length. And social justice groups tend to quite a few terrible folk using it as an excuse to be dicks to folks.

And far too many are willing to rush to their defense. Because being prejudiced against doesn't make you a good person. Being treated like shit doesn't make you right. The legitimacy of your grievances has no impact on the appropriateness of your actions - many folks (both privileged and less privileged) do not understand that just because you have been wronged, this does not entitle you to do wrong. And just because the other guy is wrong, that doesn't make you right. It's made all the worse due to the number of folks who are complete assholes to the people they are supposedly fighting for - it's the Christian Missionaries all over again, going out to preach the word and save people from themselves, while having zero respect for the people they are supposedly helping. It's really just human nature, I guess - at the very least, these sort of folks, disguising their contempt and patronizing ways under a veneer of "justice" have always been with us.

In my experience doing PR work, your worst enemies are often the people on your own side who think they are trying to help.

Luckily, there are plenty of good, reasonable, and decent folk out their fighting the good fight and making progress. It's just said that so much work threatens to be undone but the idiots and assholes who seem interested in nothing so much as digging a nice deep grave for their cause.
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MagmaMcFry

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Re: Amazingly Stupid Things You've Heard People Say
« Reply #5298 on: June 24, 2013, 01:32:53 pm »

Accidentally saying something homophobic or racist or transphobic or whatever is a problem and the fault is on the speaker, not the listener.
My opinion to that is that I should not have to check my statements for any hidden meanings before saying something. When confronted with one such alternate interpretation, I would clarify that this interpretation was not the one I intended my words to have, although I would feel no need to apologize.
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ggamer

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Re: Amazingly Stupid Things You've Heard People Say
« Reply #5299 on: June 24, 2013, 01:46:05 pm »

I'd just like to say, I fucking love these forums so much. They're the only place where flame wars take the form of long, carefully worded short essays on the subject of the war.

Y'know, the more I think about it, the more I think that the only places that shit like this even matters is North Florida, North Alabama, and Tumblr. Because those are the only places I can think of where I've actually witnessed people giving a shit.

I don't think I can comment on the struggles of people who actually go through these things, because I don't understand them, but I can comment on the people who feel like drawing attention to that shit is just the greatest idea ever.

TRIPLEDIT: And some lightheartedness to keep things getting too serious.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

tahujdt

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Re: Amazingly Stupid Things You've Heard People Say
« Reply #5300 on: June 24, 2013, 02:45:43 pm »

Quote from: Tumblr
@TumblrTXT: Do you honestly think that fat people aren’t beaten up or have ever been killed for being fat?
How can you be so stupid?
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Mr Space Cat

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Re: Amazingly Stupid Things You've Heard People Say
« Reply #5301 on: June 25, 2013, 09:48:17 pm »

Looking at that "clean privilege" page I found this gem.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's funny because the primary visual example of their argument is from "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" which was completely overdone in terms of having the peasants be "filthy" for the sake of comedy, much like the entirety of the movie being an overdone parody of Arthurian romanticized imagery of medieval times being clean and chivalrous and noble and romantic. Instead it's a nonsensical quest with half-competence in every character, including the knights and peasants, simply for luls.

They (the tumblr OP) are using an example to argue about a romanticized notion about medieval times being filthy to "reinforce notions of 'filthphobia' " when the content of the example in itself was meant to originally point fun at the notion of an overly clean and chivalrous medieval fantasy world.

Plus, reading the argument in the voice of the oppressed peasant Dennis from the scene the still-image is from fits really well. Tumblr OP writes just like Dennis talks.
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Devling

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Re: Amazingly Stupid Things You've Heard People Say
« Reply #5302 on: June 25, 2013, 09:51:00 pm »

Is... Is this legit?

Oh god wat.

(if not than it's actually pretty funny and clever!)
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Amazingly Stupid Things You've Heard People Say
« Reply #5303 on: June 25, 2013, 10:01:05 pm »

Oh, trust me, it can get a lot worse on tumblr. Just wait until you see the "cultural appropriation" folk who essentially argue for racial, religious, and cultural segregation.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
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Devling

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Re: Amazingly Stupid Things You've Heard People Say
« Reply #5304 on: June 25, 2013, 10:03:36 pm »

... I'm glad I just follow Warhammer and Art blogs.
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tahujdt

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Re: Amazingly Stupid Things You've Heard People Say
« Reply #5305 on: June 25, 2013, 10:30:41 pm »

Oh, trust me, it can get a lot worse on tumblr. Just wait until you see the "cultural appropriation" folk who essentially argue for racial, religious, and cultural segregation.
Not to mention the people who believe that scientists make up all that stuff about too much food making you fat because they hate fat people, or that guy we talked about a bit back who thought his parents were "blackmailing" him into taking his meds and getting a job by telling him they wouldn't support him if he didn't. He also mentioned that they should support him because he was a turtle and a five-year-old kid in past lives.
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I suggest that we add a clause permitting the keelhauling of anyone who suggests a plan involving "zombify the crew".
Quote from: MNII
Friend Computer, can you repair the known universe, please?

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Amazingly Stupid Things You've Heard People Say
« Reply #5306 on: June 25, 2013, 11:53:50 pm »

Possibly even more crazy than Hollow Earth, behold Inverted Earth. Relaxing voice, though.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

MagmaMcFry

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Re: Amazingly Stupid Things You've Heard People Say
« Reply #5307 on: June 26, 2013, 03:10:21 am »

Possibly even more crazy than Hollow Earth, behold Inverted Earth. Relaxing voice, though.
Aww, I'd hoped for a mathematical inversion of the scientific universe with isomorphically inverted laws of physics, but it looks like this is just a half-assed inversion of the hollow earth theory.
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Graknorke

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Re: Amazingly Stupid Things You've Heard People Say
« Reply #5308 on: June 26, 2013, 05:39:00 am »

Possibly even more crazy than Hollow Earth, behold Inverted Earth. Relaxing voice, though.
I agree with the voice thing. But...

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I FUCKING KNEW IT.
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Dutchling

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Re: Amazingly Stupid Things You've Heard People Say
« Reply #5309 on: June 26, 2013, 05:42:35 am »

Bible fan fiction mikka me cry
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