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[Xantalos]

Haven't you heard? English is a language that lurks in dark alleys, beats up other languages, and rifles through their pockets for spare vocabulary.


It is perfectly possible to be disgusted by the opposite sex--I think men look like they have a leech and a couple of tumors on their crotch, honestly. If I was male I might have tried to castrate myself because HORRIBLE FLESH SACS!

The organ is inconvenient at best and actively harmful to your social relationships at worst.

[Vector]

How you don't see gender as a part of yourself, I really don't get that.

It's really a way less important thing to my identity than Doctrine: flexibility and Passion: structure (subtype: symmetry).  If you're trying to guess how I'll react to something, 99% of the time you'll get a better answer from the above two than whether I'm male or female.

[Pnx]

How you don't see gender as a part of yourself, I really don't get that.

It's really a way less important thing to my identity than Doctrine: flexibility and Passion: structure (subtype: symmetry).  If you're trying to guess how I'll react to something, 99% of the time you'll get a better answer from the above two than whether I'm male or female.

Personally I have a bit of trouble wrapping my head around how people can feel that their gender is such a big deal.

[XXSockXX]

It is perfectly possible to be disgusted by the opposite sex--I think men look like they have a leech and a couple of tumors on their crotch, honestly. If I was male I might have tried to castrate myself because HORRIBLE FLESH SACS!

I sometimes say to my girlfriend that I don't get how anybody could be attracted to a male body, when things like the female body exist. She always agrees. She still seems to like me I guess.

It's really a way less important thing to my identity than Doctrine: flexibility and Passion: structure (subtype: symmetry).  If you're trying to guess how I'll react to something, 99% of the time you'll get a better answer from the above two than whether I'm male or female.

I don't know how important it is, but it is definitely a part of one's identity. How you react to something has nothing to do with it. In fact my girlfriend tells me I attribute (in the psychological sense) like a female, while she attributes like a male, ie she attributes sucess as her own achievement while I tend to attribute sucess to outside factors such as luck. There is way more than that, how your self-concept ultimately contains some gender-related things. The cultural/socially-generated ones are relatively easy to recognize. But there definitely are some biological ones, mostly related to sexuality and basic psychological behaviour.

[kaijyuu]

A key word in this entire discussion is "identity." Identity is a complicated thingamagigger and I can't explain it all here, but suffice to say A) it's a mental thing that's self applied, and B) a transgender person's identity states that their gender is different than what's between their legs might suggest.

Everyone wants to express their identity; it's who we are and what we define ourselves by. Gender is included in that for most people (not all though). For transgender folk, living as and being seen as the gender they identify as is a huge boost to happiness and overall mental health. And except for a few biological processes and physical attributes, identity is the sole meaningful difference between the sexes anyway. Identity is what defines what someone "really" is, and except for making babies there's no real other reason to distinguish between trans and cis (someday, with advancing medical knowledge, we'll be able to fix that too).

[Devling]

It is perfectly possible to be disgusted by the opposite sex--I think men look like they have a leech and a couple of tumors on their crotch, honestly. If I was male I might have tried to castrate myself because HORRIBLE FLESH SACS!

To be fair, as a guy, lady nether regions don't appear to great either.

[Flying Dice]

How you don't see gender as a part of yourself, I really don't get that.

It's really a way less important thing to my identity than Doctrine: flexibility and Passion: structure (subtype: symmetry).  If you're trying to guess how I'll react to something, 99% of the time you'll get a better answer from the above two than whether I'm male or female.

Personally I have a bit of trouble wrapping my head around how people can feel that their gender is such a big deal.

It's really bizarre being around people who see others first in the context of their gender, but the important thing to remember is that a lot of people do think like that. As for me, people are people are people. Doesn't matter what they look like, what parts they have, who they're attracted to, or even if they're human. If you're sapient and sentient, you're people in my book.

[Vector]

I don't know how important it is, but it is definitely a part of one's identity. How you react to something has nothing to do with it. In fact my girlfriend tells me I attribute (in the psychological sense) like a female, while she attributes like a male, ie she attributes sucess as her own achievement while I tend to attribute sucess to outside factors such as luck. There is way more than that, how your self-concept ultimately contains some gender-related things. The cultural/socially-generated ones are relatively easy to recognize. But there definitely are some biological ones, mostly related to sexuality and basic psychological behaviour.

Maybe your identity.  You're talking about attribution: that is a reaction.

Like I just said, knowing my aesthetics is the most fundamental thing about me.  Knowing that I have certain biological parts will get you nowhere.  Trying to flip over into "okay, Vector must be male then because she's very aggressive and attributes success to hard work" will also get you nowhere.  I am not best explained through gender; I am barely, if at all, explained thus.

[Putnam]

It's really a way less important thing to my identity than Doctrine: flexibility and Passion: structure (subtype: symmetry).  If you're trying to guess how I'll react to something, 99% of the time you'll get a better answer from the above two than whether I'm male or female.

I don't know how important it is, but it is definitely a part of one's identity. How you react to something has nothing to do with it. In fact my girlfriend tells me I attribute (in the psychological sense) like a female, while she attributes like a male, ie she attributes sucess as her own achievement while I tend to attribute sucess to outside factors such as luck. There is way more than that, how your self-concept ultimately contains some gender-related things. The cultural/socially-generated ones are relatively easy to recognize. But there definitely are some biological ones, mostly related to sexuality and basic psychological behaviour.

I don't see how that's related so much to gender as self-esteem.

[XXSockXX]

It's really bizarre being around people who see others first in the context of their gender, but the important thing to remember is that a lot of people do think like that. As for me, people are people are people. Doesn't matter what they look like, what parts they have, who they're attracted to, or even if they're human. If you're sapient and sentient, you're people in my book.

So you are saying that, if you meet someone in person, your reaction is not at all inflenced by how you perceive them gender-wise? I mean everybody is people to me too, but I'm sure there is at least subconsciously a threat-level/competition check for other males and some kind of attraction-check for females when I meet someone. On a subconscious level you can hardly avoid these things.

Maybe your identity.  You're talking about attribution: that is a reaction.

Like I just said, knowing my aesthetics is the most fundamental thing about me.  Knowing that I have certain biological parts will get you nowhere.  Trying to flip over into "okay, Vector must be male then because she's very aggressive and attributes success to hard work" will also get you nowhere.  I am not best explained through gender; I am barely, if at all, explained thus.

Yes, and I said reaction does not matter. And I didn't say that gender is the most fundamental part of self-conception, just a part of it. Individuality takes precedence over gender all the time, and gender is hardly ever the best way to explain a person. I don't think you can fully deny gender being part of your identity though, simply on the grounds that you cannot know or even realistically imagine what it would be like if you were of the opposite gender.

[GuesssWho]

Most of our culturally-based gender ideas are frankly scary. I think someone was experimenting with psychological warfare or something, because our gender baggage is so crippling it's hard to imagine it being an accident.

Men are soulless macho violent twits and women are mindless weak sex toys, and men especially are taught that showing any trait that isn't one arbitrarily assigned to them is worth commiting suicide over. In sane reality everyone has potential for every human trait. Hating and fearing half of your soul is not a good thing.

[Loud Whispers]

Most of our culturally-based gender ideas are frankly scary. I think someone was experimenting with psychological warfare or something, because our gender baggage is so crippling it's hard to imagine it being an accident.

Heyo.

[GuesssWho]

Something like that, yeah.

[XXSockXX]

I don't see how that's related so much to gender as self-esteem.

Because according to some psycholgists you do built self-esteem differentely according to your gender. That seems a pretty old-fashioned idea though, just like "girls are bad at math" which clearly is bullshit.

In sane reality everyone has potential for every human trait. Hating and fearing half of your soul is not a good thing.

Yes. But I think your own subconcious perception of the world is to a degree shaped by your gender. And you can't even really know it, because it ultimately is too distant to imagine it realistically.

[Devling]

Humans are sacks of flesh and water with chemicals in them right?
And guys and gals have different chemicals produced, so guys and gals are different both physically and psychologically.

(though usually in ways we might not associate with man or women)