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[Valtam]

Well, this is my first question thread here at the Bay12 community, and as I haven't introduced myself then perhaps I'm missing a step or two in order to avoid being ignored and considered to be just a sane guy who lurks the forums and gives some useless opinions.

Nothing unusual around here, white caucasian male on his twenties who just discovered DF and got an instant, preety creepy hook on it. I've been playing since a month or two, this is approximately my tenth fortress on my third generated world, I think I'll just preserve the one I am until mayor changes apply to the game. It's maybe the second time I've made my way to the third cavern layer and I haven't once reached the magma sea, until now... I wouldn't have come this far without reading the wiki and checking out this helpful (and somewhat deranged) community.

***

Now that I'm on track, lets begin with the proper question:
I set one of my initial seven to be my broker (and she's also my book-keeper), with adequate appraisal skills and no more. Given that my mother civilization is already extinct (I suppose, their blue omegas don't appear on the embark map) then I wasn't expecting a whole load of migrants with better trading skills, or even better, none at all. Still, time passes, and skipping forward 5 years my broker has legendary +5 appraising skills. Hell of a appraiser is she, you can blindfold her and put a pig tail seed bag in each of her hands, she'll tell you one of them costs 31☼ because it has 10 seeds, while the other costs 61☼ because is has around 20. But she does no more, and the merchants always have the upper hand on her because of their presumably higher skill set in other areas, such as negotiating or intimidate.

I understand that the trading skill gain comes from just opening the window, not the actual trade (however it comes) but is there any chance to get her some helpful points in other relevant areas, so I can barter better prices? Or should I just resort to appoint someone who knows the ropes about interacting with merchants? Also, is this last thing even useful? Or are those yet unimplemented skills?

Thanks in advance.

[ZawB]

Aw, what a great question. I've tried keeping my broker off any other tasks, so that they can sit around doing nothing forever, but the social skills just level up so slooowly. I think that the broker gets points in some other random traits, like negotiator, after each trade? But do they even matter? The wiki implies that only Judge of Intent and Appraiser makes any noticeable difference (and they do, if not exactly dramatically), but when selecting the broker the game itself recommends people with all kinds of skills, like Conversationalist.

Now I just usually wait around for a dwarf with skills ready-made to appear. I usually get something in the second year.

[misko27]

Well, if you set him to maximium accuracy, he should spend forever in there, and then be awesome.

[XXSockXX]

No need for big introductions, people just seem reluctant with threads started by new people because of the spambots that try to sell their useless crap here.

Generally I don't find it necessary to have an especially skilled broker. After the first few years you usually have way too many items anyway, so it is better to overpay and get rid of stuff than to try to pay a minimum and drown in useless crafts you don't need.

The appraiser skill is raised by performing a trade, you can level the skill to novice by just letting a dwarf trade one item for another. It does not matter wether the trade is sucessful or not, but only opening the window is not enough.

The other skills like judge of intent, negotiator etc that could affect trade (I'm not sure how exactly/if they do at all) are social skills that are raised by idling and socialising with other dwarfs. Since your broker is also your bookkeeper she is probably busy full time and does not socialise much.

So I'd say, if you are a few years in, broker skills don't matter at all, "novice appraiser" is needed to see prices, but you can train any dwarf up to that with a few performed trades.

I have a dedicated broker, but when he is busy/sleeping/on break etc I let anyone trade. The merchants will want to earn about 30-50%, no matter who trades.

[Valtam]

Awesome, that might do it. Having a lot of spare time and plenty of rocks, it might be time to shape an ungodly excess of mugs and crafts.
Didn't knew about the socialising stuff, so it's just counterintuitive for my nerdy broker to be also great at merchant handling. Go figure.

Then, I'll allow them to take my trash, take everything of it. I might find ways to depend less and less of trade, for sure; right now people just let pig tails and plump helmets to wither and rot right in the fields, and I'm just fine with mass tree burning thanks to their production excess, but wanted to know how to take the best edges of trades, whenever I embark again on a less friendly environment.

Have to say that the fortress becomes more and more boring as time passes, getting wealthier at an "unstoppable" rate, but that'll entice me to test new stuff...

[Garath]

you're being slightly bullshitted here.

The appraiser skill is only raised once or up to a limit when you trade, regardless the size, value or profit of the trade (afaik). However, as long as your broker has appraisal, any dwarf that trades benefits from it.

Each trade, however, also gives xp in various other social skills. This happens at each trade, though only once if a trade is rejected (as in, you can't spam rejected trades if you don't want to buy anything anymore anyway)

this info is readily available on the wiki

Each trade you make (regardless of value) will increase your broker's skills by 50, distributed among Comedian, Flatterer, Intimidator, Judge of Intent, Negotiator, and Persuader. Each skill seems to gain around 5-15 points, but the sum will always be 50. The skill gain occurs as soon as the "t" button is pressed - if the offer is rejected, the dwarf will still gain 50 points. If the same offer is subsequently accepted, no additional skill will be gained.

yay for the wiki

[XXSockXX]

you're being slightly bullshitted here.

Ahem? That's a bit harsh, I said basically the same thing, a lot less precisely of course, but nothing wrong or bullshit-like.

[Garath]

you're being slightly bullshitted here.

Ahem? That's a bit harsh, I said basically the same thing, a lot less precisely of course, but nothing wrong or bullshit-like.

correct me if I'm wrong, but is this a quote from your post?

The other skills like judge of intent, negotiator etc that could affect trade (I'm not sure how exactly/if they do at all) are social skills that are raised by idling and socialising with other dwarfs. Since your broker is also your bookkeeper she is probably busy full time and does not socialise much.

[XXSockXX]

Ok, point taken. I did not know that. I get dwarfs with these skills from socialising though, like children with legendary judge of intent etc.
Also I was not spreading wrong info on purpose (that's how I understand bullshitting), but to my best (arguably lacking) knowledge.

[Garath]

sorry if I was a bit harsh. I've had to deal to often with people who were often wrong and never seemed to learn and some myths just don't want to die down.

If you're not certain, or think you may not know the details, mention so, I usually do, check it on the wiki, etc. That way you'd just be mistaken.

[Valtam]

Thanks for the correction, Garath, and I suspect that it doesn't override XXSockXX's answer, but works as a complement. Your explanation left me with a few new questions, which is great.

You said that

However, as long as your broker has appraisal, any dwarf that trades benefits from it.

Then, through a wiki-reading, I see that you can define the Trade Depot as a burrow, allowing untrained dwarves to learn the know-how of trade. While the legendary broker is alive, doesn't matter if she's fishing or updating the books, everyone might know the real price of the stuff being sold and train in the Depot burrow, am I wrong?
Perhaps is not too dwarfy if they're helping each other and making their lives easier, but for the sake of knowledge I would like to understand how it works.

Also, where the wiki says that each (t)rade made will give 50 distributed points in the broker skillset, it happens just once in a trading season, right? So if a particular wealthy autumn comes with 5 wagons and 3 fleet-footed merchants, I'll only gain 50 points if the offer is rejected 3 times, then accepted and afterwards I bring more goods to trade with them. Or should that be 100 points?

[Garath]

not entirely sure on the last one, but think of the broker as a guy who made a trade-pricelist. Anyone can pick up the list and see what should be worth what. Ofcourse, if they are bad at social skills they might not get the desired exchange rate.

[XXSockXX]

sorry if I was a bit harsh. I've had to deal to often with people who were often wrong and never seemed to learn and some myths just don't want to die down.

If you're not certain, or think you may not know the details, mention so, I usually do, check it on the wiki, etc. That way you'd just be mistaken.

No problem. I usually try to be precise and have no issue with being corrected. In such a detailed game you never know enough.