Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Reelya]

Other major influences would be HP Lovecraft-based films such as 1985's Reanimator and 1986's From Beyond.

From Beyond centers on a pair of scientists attempting to stimulate the pineal gland with a device called The Resonator. An unforeseen result of their experiments is the ability to perceive creatures from another dimension that proceed to drag the head scientist into their world, returning him as a grotesque shape-changing monster that preys upon the others at the laboratory.

Hellraiser came out 1 month before the launch of Warhammer 40k. While it could have been an influence on the first edition, it's unlikely. Definitely had an influence on fleshing things out as they went along however.

[Starver]

The link to WH40k seems pretty weak for Event Horizon from my point of view. "nasty shit waiting for us in another dimension" is pretty standard fare.

Cliver Barker's stuff is much more clearly influential on the series. As is the Alien franchise.

Warhammer 40K started with this particular schtick somewhere between 1987 and 1993 (as the first edition got compiled), IIRC.  Event Horizon was 1997.  So spiritual predecessor, but certainly not temporal.

(Hellraiser was 1987 [ninjaed, with more detail!], The Thing From Another World was 1951.  But, even there, I tend to agree with a 'common originating meme' and/or 'converging evolution', rather than a direct link.  OTOH, non-40K Terminators doubtless inspired the 40K Necron race (while 40K Terminators were at least a distant great-uncle of Halo Spartans) and Manga (especially that featuring Gundam-like mecha) probably inspired the Tau.  The original Gene-Stealers were Aliens (but the Tyrranids as a whole predated at least the filmic Starship Troopers, even if not the original 1959 book, which might have also inspired aspects of Space Marine tech).  And of course a whole swathe of 40K races are future-versions of the original Warhammer races which are basically direct descendants from Tolkien, with the benefit of many decades of intervening derivative fiction and popularisation of the appropriate concepts in the appropriate melting-pots made of adolescent human brain.  Mmmm... adolescent human brain....  <droool>)

[i2amroy]

B) A Demon attempts to take the soul of a baby

Considering that generally demons (at least in the stuff I watch/read) take souls by means of arcane contracts, it seems like the premier age for soul snatching would be the early toddler age, since, AFAIK, demons aren't bound by the law that says that contracts that minors sign are invalid. All they'd need to do would be to write up a piece of paper that said "I do hereby give my soul to X demon irrevocably and for all time in exchange for absolutely nothing", then hand it to a young child and wait till they scribble in the appropriate section (ideally they would make it so crayon only stuck in the appropriate box). Then just snap up their soul and be on your way.

Of course they wouldn't be the most satisfying soul suckings, but they would certainly be effective!

[LordBaal]

Or simply offer them candy or something for it.

[Culise]

Or simply offer them candy or something for it.

Or cake.

Spoiler: Puella Magi Madoka Magica spoilers (click to show/hide)

[Urist McScoopbeard]

attempting to find the original inspirational source material for 40k is an impossible task.

[i2amroy]

Or simply offer them candy or something for it.

Or cake.

Spoiler: Puella Magi Madoka Magica spoilers (click to show/hide)

Yes! So much win!

[Neonivek]

B) A Demon attempts to take the soul of a baby

Considering that generally demons (at least in the stuff I watch/read) take souls by means of arcane contracts, it seems like the premier age for soul snatching would be the early toddler age, since, AFAIK, demons aren't bound by the law that says that contracts that minors sign are invalid. All they'd need to do would be to write up a piece of paper that said "I do hereby give my soul to X demon irrevocably and for all time in exchange for absolutely nothing", then hand it to a young child and wait till they scribble in the appropriate section (ideally they would make it so crayon only stuck in the appropriate box). Then just snap up their soul and be on your way.

Of course they wouldn't be the most satisfying soul suckings, but they would certainly be effective!

A demon still can't take a pure soul... Regardless of what the contract says.

At least in my mind. The contracts are a form of corruption requiring the person to give into greed or avarice.

A Toddler is just giving into "not knowing any better"

[Sergius]

Related... there was this show, something about a soul collector (I think it was named The Collector or something really imaginative like that). The premise was, some people had made deals with the devil but then were avoiding paying or something (by going to hell) so this guy went and collected them. There was this woman, the details of her deal I can't bother to remember, but because she wouldn't pay, some OTHER unrelated dude couldn't stop raping or abusing his underage daughter or whatever. The idea was very troublesome to me (in addition to the child abuse part obviously) because this guy had done no kind of deal yet his "free will" was being denied by third parties, which is not how this is supposed to work (otherwise why make deals? just make everyone rape everyone!).

Anyway I never watched another episode of this stupid show.

[DeKaFu]

Heh, people have a lot of ideas about how demon deals are supposed to or not supposed to work. I'd say they can work however the author of the setting decides they should work. Maybe they only make deals because it's more fun than not making deals? Not sticking to the rules ruins the game.

I was actually just having a discussion the other day about whether it would be demon-legal to include selling your soul as a requirement to completing your university degree. Sucks, but what can you do?

I wish I could remember the context for that discussion.

[LordBaal]

Related... there was this show, something about a soul collector (I think it was named The Collector or something really imaginative like that). The premise was, some people had made deals with the devil but then were avoiding paying or something (by going to hell) so this guy went and collected them. There was this woman, the details of her deal I can't bother to remember, but because she wouldn't pay, some OTHER unrelated dude couldn't stop raping or abusing his underage daughter or whatever. The idea was very troublesome to me (in addition to the child abuse part obviously) because this guy had done no kind of deal yet his "free will" was being denied by third parties, which is not how this is supposed to work (otherwise why make deals? just make everyone rape everyone!).

Anyway I never watched another episode of this stupid show.

The Collector indeed.

[Neonivek]

Heh, people have a lot of ideas about how demon deals are supposed to or not supposed to work. I'd say they can work however the author of the setting decides they should work. Maybe they only make deals because it's more fun than not making deals? Not sticking to the rules ruins the game.

I remember one of the Wish Masters movies where the villain was basically a "Evil Genie" form of demon. Now ignoring his own stupidity in the movie...

The one thing I did like about it is that he was given a wish "I wish I loved you" and he COULD have granted it by basically forcing her via magic, in fact other demons plead and mock him for not immediately doing so. Yet he just wants to see if he really could grant that wish without mind control. MIND YOU, he only needs her to essentially SAY she loves him (He is a demon, watcha gonna do?) but out of the sea of problems that movie had, that was definitely one of the few nice touches.

As for "It is anything the author wants". If demons work differently, then tell us that demons work differently. If you clearly set up Christian style demons, don't be surprised if the whole "I am possessing your baby!" might make me scoff.

[Sergius]

Heh, people have a lot of ideas about how demon deals are supposed to or not supposed to work. I'd say they can work however the author of the setting decides they should work. Maybe they only make deals because it's more fun than not making deals? Not sticking to the rules ruins the game.

As for "It is anything the author wants". If demons work differently, then tell us that demons work differently. If you clearly set up Christian style demons, don't be surprised if the whole "I am possessing your baby!" might make me scoff.

Exactly. If you're going to rip off biblical mythology entirely and not even bothering to say "our devil is different! he can also send innocents to hell if he wants, he doesn't answer to anybody! but he likes to have fun so he does it this way." Which, BTW, apparently was another bit of nonsense in that show: telling any innocent person about the whole devil thing would send both to hell. So, apparently, whoever is managing the "not hell" part of the afterlife doesn't give a crap if that person was the saintliest saint of the whole universe. At which point my conclusion is that there's only hell anyways (since nobody is actively preventing good souls to go to hell) and so why bother at all trying to avoid going there.

[Starver]

I remember one of the Wish Masters movies [...]

There were several?

I saw the first.  It was laughable. i.e. Not in a good way.  I assume the rest went straight to Betamax?

[Dirst]

About Avatar, a charismatic villain with a great motivation can make for a great movie.  The problem with Avatar is that the movie-makers were so sure that their anti-corporate dogma was so compelling that they missed that the villain has a better motivation than the hero.

Not that he's a saint or anything.  He definitely oversold the need to attack Hometree and even the massing army because, well just because he's a dick. 

I don't know any canon beyond the movie but the alternative is obvious.  Why couldn't the mining company dig a tunnel to get the absurdly valuable ore?  Even if they inexplicably didn't have boring machines, there were other deposits to mine while the equipment was on its way.  What the "blue monkeys" don't see won't hurt them.

As for Avatar 2, Jake is in a body designed to be remote controlled.  He should last about twenty seconds after the reinforcements arrive.  "Hey, my heart and lungs just stopped.  That sucks."

If avatar tech has advanced at all, the invaders could even puppeteer him into announcing that the Sky People come in peace.