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Trinimac

Malacath

Gork

Mork

Morgoth

Saruman

Bhall

Father Sky

[Fairin]

ohh a race of Drakitties to rule all ! =(^.-.^)=

[Meph]

Kitten or Catpeople mods will never be allowed in my mod. HA.

Anyway, yes, smake, you solved a problem with a solution so very simple, I completely overlooked it. I always wanted to make different embark races, but was afraid how that would mess up the balancing in worldgen and the trading/sieges of elves, humans or drow.

The solution: Keep them as they are, and write a new, playable version. You did not change the existing orcs, you wrote a new entity. I can just copy the elves, write a playable version, and keep it out of the raws while people play dwarves. Then they press a button in the launcher, and the "normal" elves are replaced by playable elves, with all the custom buildings and reactions. And it wont mess up trading or balancing, because it is your own civ. So yes, I am playing with the idea, but it should be a long way off, because of all the custom buildings and reactions for 3 races. Should be fun ^^

To take some animals away from them, remove these lines:
[USE_ANY_PET_RACE] < takes pet_exotic at embark/caravan
[USE_CAVE_ANIMALS] < takes subterranean at embark/caravan
[USE_EVIL_ANIMALS]  < self-explanatory

I would cut out some of the more dwarven specific stuff, and if you need any help with reactions just leave me a PM. Nobles... I dont know much about that, I tried that in the beginning, but they were broken somehow, but as someone said: toady fixed some stuff on them, so maybe it is worth another try.

EDIT: Oh, and the caste specific sprite trick? Forget about it, works only on invaders.

[Diamond]

The problem is, at the moment, the orcs are too similiar to dwarfes to make it a truly changed experience from normal play. Yes, they have some nice stuff, put atm, they are dwarfes with another skin

It's entirely up to you how to play them, just make it authentic. I recently started a fort with this mod, so far it is much different gameplay, as I plan on building everything above ground. Maybe 1-z level down basements for stockpiles in future, if there will not be enough space inside the walls.
It's in the 5th season now (elven ambush time if I am unlucky, according to first post), with initial defenses finished.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The only thing being underground is my mine, which is simply a 25-level high up/down staircase for now, going through veins of both silver and iron ores. Also, olivine, yay.

Also, a question: as the sieging races are different from original, how are doors and floodgates reliable against sieges for first few years? I didn't play MW much, but I know that some castes of siegers have the building destroyer tags and also warbeasts that can do that too. So should I expect the first siege of dwarves or even elves break down my floodgates gate into the town?

[Meph]

No, they shouldnt break anything down early.

[smakemupagus]

@Diamond:  The elves have ambushing behavior and may come early.  The Dwarves have siege behavior.  I don't think they have any special building destroyers, I've seen Drow assaults with Cave crawlers, but not early.  All of them have quite nice weapons.

@Meph and Firehawk:  Yes, in general I totally agree about continuing to replace Dwarven stuff... this was just a starting point.   

Firehawk, If you have specific examples of something you would change/replace then absolutely let me know!  (or convince Meph and he can overrule me )  But I think your tastes seem to lean more towards total conversion than mine.  Yeah, I'll probably take away the Furniture Maker, but I don't think I would be inclined to take out the mason, mechanist, or soapmaker; to me that seems like unnecessarily taking stuff away.  I'm more from Diamond's point of view of leaving some of those decisions up to the player.  If anything I'd rather just tweak down the learn rates for masonry and stonecraft a little bit.

In case you're interested here's my current list of buildings which Dwarves have, and Orcs do not. 

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

PERMITTED_BUILDING:MERCHANTHALL
PERMITTED_BUILDING:FARMERSMARKET
PERMITTED_BUILDING:ARMSDEALER
PERMITTED_BUILDING:RUNESMITH
PERMITTED_BUILDING:GREAT_MAGMA_FORGE
PERMITTED_BUILDING:MACHINE_FACTORY
PERMITTED_BUILDING:CHEMIST
PERMITTED_BUILDING:ALCHEMIST_LAB
PERMITTED_BUILDING:MUSIC
PERMITTED_BUILDING:CREATURE_ARMORY
PERMITTED_BUILDING:GOLEM
PERMITTED_BUILDING:BREWERY
PERMITTED_BUILDING:TIMBERYARD
PERMITTED_BUILDING:ARMORY
# MAGIC SYSTEM#
PERMITTED_BUILDING:WEAPONRY
PERMITTED_BUILDING:BRICK_OVEN
PERMITTED_BUILDING:GEMWORKSHOP
PERMITTED_BUILDING:TRANSMUTATION_CHAMBER
PERMITTED_BUILDING:GUN_FORGE
PERMITTED_BUILDING:BULLET_MINT
PERMITTED_BUILDING:SCRIPTORIUM
PERMITTED_BUILDING:MECHANIXM_LIBRARY_FARMING
PERMITTED_BUILDING:MECHANIXM_LIBRARY_CRAFTS
PERMITTED_BUILDING:MECHANIXM_LIBRARY_MENTAL
PERMITTED_BUILDING:MECHANIXM_LIBRARY_MILITARY
PERMITTED_BUILDING:BLAST_FURNACE
PERMITTED_BUILDING:MAGMA_ARC_FURNACE
-Metallurgist: kept only the 'smelter' reacx bronze, pewter, etc.
PERMITTED_BUILDING:CASTER_MAGMA_LFR
PERMITTED_BUILDING:ARMOK_SHRINE
PERMITTED_BUILDING:ARMOK_ALTAR
PERMITTED_BUILDING:ARMOK_TEMPLE

Of course you also don't get turrets or golems from the homeland.  Maybe, you can buy them from chaos dwarves?

[Diamond]

I know this should happen, but got me worried for a sec after message about kidnapper getting away with a dragon.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[smakemupagus]

Oh.  Yeah, I assume that's because our civ and allies are BABYSNATCHERS, so you get that message when the trade caravan takes their own pets back away.  Sorry bout that

Your giant circular castle is pretty awesome.

[Firehawk45]

Wait wait wait, Merchanthall? Farmersmarket? Armsdealer? What are you hiding from us Meph?

The problem is, as i already stated, i have no idea whats hardcoded and whats not. And yes, im a bit of a guy who says "This is one race, this is another, they have to feel different", i blaim starcraft for this

Just keep working on this, as i said, there is potential. Maybe hold a gun to Mephs head and force him to include this in the main mod

[Meph]

I am not withholding... much. Anyway, these things are smakes work. And once it is fleshed out and tested more I will certainly ask smakes permission to inlcude it as an alternate embark race.

@diamond: It looks like you embarked on a pre-build circular fortress... is this correct, and if yes, which type ? I have never seen one like this.

For the orcs I would make following suggestions:
Warg Pit/Den. Spawns a couple of tougher wolves, friendly to you. Similar to the turret setup I use for dwarves. I could also see cruder/rougher names for the same items. A simpler version of the timberyard, as well as a little altar/shrine to some orc gods. Only one building though, cant see them as a godly race ^^

A question: Why are the other babysnatching races not allied to you ? the goblins, frost giants and so on ?

[smakemupagus]

A question: Why are the other babysnatching races not allied to you ? the goblins, frost giants and so on ?

I don't know about the goblins and such ... They're non-hostile, but on the entities tab instead of a red '-----' or 'WAR' it says in yellow 'No Trade' and they never visit.  I've never seen this 'No Trade' symbol before.  Those races lack a noble with trade responsibility.  I decided it's your problem since it's in a core Masterwork file , um, hmm, maybe we would try creating a Goblin noble with [RESPONSIBILITY:TRADE]?

@Firehawk:  Yeah, the Merchanthall and such are for now, only the Dwarves within Orc Fortress.  Although it looks like Meph will have something like it but probably much more polished (certainly, very cool looking buildings) for his Humans

[Ishar]

Warg Pit/Den. Spawns a couple of tougher wolves, friendly to you. Similar to the turret setup I use for dwarves.

MW already has direwolves, although for some reason, non-trainable by default. Those could come in handy.

[Diamond]

@diamond: It looks like you embarked on a pre-build circular fortress... is this correct, and if yes, which type ? I have never seen one like this.

Nope. I spent the whole 1st year building that. It could look neater if I decided to build 2-tile wide walls from the beginning though.

One more question: I survived elven ambush and human 1-squad siege so far, and also 1 mountain titan made of fire landmine which exploded shortly after arriving. But I recently noticed few of the worker orks that didn't even leave the walls for about a year getting nauseous and vomit pools on beds on farm plots. What are the possible reasons for this? Maybe I am missing some features of MW mod and need to set up hospital with doctors or something?

[Firehawk45]

errr, could it be that orcs get cave adaption?

[Diamond]

errr, could it be that orcs get cave adaption?

But only few spend time underground, mostly 2 miners and few orks on block-making duty.

And yet another question: which bow type is better, as there are recurve bows and 3 different materials composite bows available. I guess composite bows are better, but are metal composite bows even better then wood/bone ones, or just a waste of iron?

[Meph]

More ideas. I can easily see orcs having Totempoles, lots of drums, Waaaagh-Banners and the like. I would also add multiple litter to them, and make them breed faster. Somehow sounds right. Fighting duels/contests also sounds fitting, but I wouldnt know how to add this.