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[Max White]

Oh hey, so... This thread is a thing. Neat.
So yea, that bit where people say 'You have the right to believe what ever you want!', I would like to know why? It is a concept I never fully understood. I can understand people wanting the right to free speech, because I can see how that is benificial to society, but does telling people that they can think what ever they like without evidence and not have it questioned and critisised really that great?

[MrWiggles]

Oh hey, so... This thread is a thing. Neat.
So yea, that bit where people say 'You have the right to believe what ever you want!', I would like to know why? It is a concept I never fully understood. I can understand people wanting the right to free speech, because I can see how that is benificial to society, but does telling people that they can think what ever they like without evidence and not have it questioned and critisised really that great?

Right to Freedom of Expression/Speech is also the right to Freedom of Thought.

The issue, is using your religion, or more importantly, using any magical thinking to act upon unconsenting adults or minors or using it as a plan of action that suppose to be representive of a diverse group.

[Max White]

The right to think something isn't morally justified isn't exactly the same as the right to think the earth is 6,000 years old. One of them is objectively verifiable.

[Micro102]

It's fine to think whatever you want. It's when you start pushing your beliefs on others that the problems start. Also, who said your beleif isn't going to be criticized? If you have the freedom to voice your beleif, other people have the right to voice their beleif that your beleif is wrong.

[Max White]

See where and why did we come to the conclusion that it is fine to thank what ever you want?

[penguinofhonor]

Oh hey, so... This thread is a thing. Neat.

The necromancy is about half a month late, but yeah, I guess it never got locked. Just got inactive when things got a little out of hand. I'll try harder to keep people reeled in this time.

The current topic is dangerously philosophical, but it's not something I hear discussed often so I think we're treading non-circular ground for once.

[MaximumZero]

It's fine to think whatever you want. It's when you start pushing your beliefs on others that the problems start. Also, who said your beleif isn't going to be criticized? If you have the freedom to voice your beleif, other people have the right to voice your beleif that their beleif is wrong.

See, there's a problem with this thought: Numerous times in judeo-christian-Mosaic-based scripture, (all the Bibles, the Torah, and the Qu'ran), it states clearly that people are to go and spread their beliefs. If you don't, you're disobeying your religion, and risking eternal punishment.

[MrWiggles]

It's fine to think whatever you want. It's when you start pushing your beliefs on others that the problems start. Also, who said your beleif isn't going to be criticized? If you have the freedom to voice your beleif, other people have the right to voice your beleif that their beleif is wrong.

See, there's a problem with this thought: Numerous times in judeo-christian-Mosaic-based scripture, (all the Bibles, the Torah, and the Qu'ran), it states clearly that people are to go and spread their beliefs. If you don't, you're disobeying your religion, and risking eternal punishment.

Thats a property common to almost every meme.

[Micro102]

It's fine to think whatever you want. It's when you start pushing your beliefs on others that the problems start. Also, who said your beleif isn't going to be criticized? If you have the freedom to voice your beleif, other people have the right to voice your beleif that their beleif is wrong.

See, there's a problem with this thought: Numerous times in judeo-christian-Mosaic-based scripture, (all the Bibles, the Torah, and the Qu'ran), it states clearly that people are to go and spread their beliefs. If you don't, you're disobeying your religion, and risking eternal punishment.

There are a lot of thing the holy books say that heir respective religious followers do not do. But you wont see these people suddenly renounce their religion because they don't want to do it ( at least not most of them). Many if not most Christians have not read the Bible. They will just find a work around, like they do with how the Bible says to stone disobediant children.

[Frumple]

The current topic is dangerously philosophical, but it's not something I hear discussed often so I think we're treading non-circular ground for once.

Ethics of belief is only tangentially related to religion, yeah. As for Max W's thing, I think the major reason we've currently mostly subscribed to a kind of "anything-goes" in the realm of belief is because that's been the system that's so-far been least capable (though, of course, note that least is not un-) of being abused, or at very least is the least troublesome to roll with. If you hold that there's reasons to disallow certain sorts of belief systems, things get hellaciously complicated.

There's a number of folks that have chimed in on the ethics of forming and holding belief, though, most of them outside of theology so far as I know.

It's fine to think whatever you want. It's when you start pushing your beliefs on others that the problems start. Also, who said your beleif isn't going to be criticized? If you have the freedom to voice your beleif, other people have the right to voice your beleif that their beleif is wrong.

See, there's a problem with this thought: Numerous times in judeo-christian-Mosaic-based scripture, (all the Bibles, the Torah, and the Qu'ran), it states clearly that people are to go and spread their beliefs. If you don't, you're disobeying your religion, and risking eternal punishment.

The method of spreading your belief can vary, though. It's not all shoving bibles down your throat and hellfire and brimstone and swords. I've ran into a few Christian believers who hold that proselytizing is done strictly through action (or to be more precise, it's a necessary consequence of proper worship; "walk with god and others will come and walk with you", kind of thing), and who only spread the word, so to speak, when it's directly requested and even then not as a "this is the truth" but a "this is the truth that has worked for me" thing. I'm fairly sure there's a bit stronger thread of that in some of the more predominately eastern religions, as well.

[Max White]

Is it right to spread your religion? Is it wrong? Well I see it as a moral choice, not something with a clear objective truth, so while you can expect people to disagree with you, you have the right to your opinion.
Is evolution real? Is it a lie? Well we can figure that out by observing speciation, and we have! You can question the methods used in the experiment and the application of collected data and the precision of instruments and what have you, but at the end of the day when those issues are addressed, and they have been, it has still been clearly observed. Now, should you have the right to think over wise?

[MaximumZero]

Thats a property common to almost every meme.

This is true, but most people don't realize that what they're doing is memetic, no matter the meme.

There are a lot of thing the holy books say that heir respective religious followers do not do. But you wont see these people suddenly renounce their religion because they don't want to do it ( at least not most of them). Many if not most Christians have not read the Bible. They will just find a work around, like they do with how the Bible says to stone disobediant children.

It would be really difficult to stone a child for talking back to you in our current social climate. However, it's really easy to knock on doors at 7am and fuck up peoples' day if you do it with a smile. Also, I wish more christians would read their bibles, and take the time to understand them. There would be more atheists.

The method of spreading your belief can vary, though. It's not all shoving bibles down your throat and hellfire and brimstone and swords. I've ran into a few Christian believers who hold that proselytizing is done strictly through action (or to be more precise, it's a necessary consequence of proper worship; "walk with god and others will come and walk with you", kind of thing), and who only spread the word, so to speak, when it's directly requested and even then not as a "this is the truth" but a "this is the truth that has worked for me" thing. I'm fairly sure there's a bit stronger thread of that in some of the more predominately eastern religions, as well.

No, not all proselytizing is done with a megaphone and a cattle prod. However, the ones who are the loudest get the most attention, and hey, any publicity is good publicity, right?

[Frumple]

Is evolution real? Is it a lie? Well we can figure that out by observing speciation, and we have! You can question the methods used in the experiment and the application of collected data and the precision of instruments and what have you, but at the end of the day when those issues are addressed, and they have been, it has still been clearly observed. Now, should you have the right to think over wise?

Gods, of course we have the right to think otherwise. It'd be the absolute height of hubris to assume that our "addressed issues" aren't going to be just as flawed as pretty much every single bloody other one we as a species have had in the past. Doing otherwise is setting ourselves up for another Galileo or two dozen down the line. Clearly observed entails "to the extent of our capabilities" which necessarily means finite and flawed, at least at this point. We've got really good ideas of a lot that's going on but we're not even remotely to the point we're done writing the book yet.

[Micro102]

So, has anyone else watched "the athirst experience"? Its a tv show run by athiests directed towards Christians. In Texas.... yeah.

Anyway there are tons of clips and full shows on YouTube, and I have seen every argument discussed in this show. I believe it is still up and that you can call in when they run the show, which I also believe they have a livestream for.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Eh, the most interesting part of The Atheist Experience is responding to the trolls and pseudo-trolls. Otherwise not very interesting.