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[Sheb]

Lots of Christian says that all those laws in the Old Testament are there so that no one canr espect them all and be perfect: we are all sinners and the only thing we can do is ask for God's forgiveness.

As for the Bible as moral guide, I guess it's kind of a Rorshard test: you can pretty much see whatever you want in it.

[Leafsnail]

Lots of Christian says that all those laws in the Old Testament are there so that no one canr espect them all and be perfect: we are all sinners and the only thing we can do is ask for God's forgiveness.

So... God is intentionally setting impossible standards for all of us so we're forced to grovel?  Why should I require forgiveness for something that is literally impossible for me, or any human being, to avoid doing?

As for the Bible as moral guide, I guess it's kind of a Rorshard test: you can pretty much see whatever you want in it.

That's part of the problem - it's like an echo chamber resonating with the voice of God.

[Hanslanda]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[spoiler]

I believe this belongs here for some reason. Do not take this post as part of the discussion, I just wanted to throw this in here.

[TheWetSheep]

Zimbabwe=/=Uganda, but homosexuality is against the law there too.

Hey, I didn't know that.

Homosexuals are your enemy?

Sorry, this was not the point I was trying to make. Not the best context for that quote, I guess.

Anyway, Jesus quite clearly states that not one letter of the Law shall be struck until Heaven and Earth are destroyed and all is finished. Now, Heaven probably doesn't exist at all, but I can tell you for a fact that Earth is still very much here and not destroyed. It therefore follows that the Old Testament is not invalidated.

I realize this. This issue is a large debate in the Christian world at the moment, and I don't really understand it. I have an idea though. Jesus said, "I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfil it." So maybe that means that he no longer wants people to persecute(or stone to death) homosexuals, but it's still a sin. I'm not sure if that makes sense, it's just an idea I had. I'm not sure if you're familiar with this story, but some religious leaders take a prostitute to Jesus, and since prostitution is punishable by death, they want him to condemn the woman and stone her. Under the law of the Old Testament, it's what he should have done. But he did not. He extended forgiveness to her. So I believe we are supposed to love, not condemn, homosexuals, but recognize that it is still a sin.

Lots of Christian says that all those laws in the Old Testament are there so that no one canr espect them all and be perfect: we are all sinners and the only thing we can do is ask for God's forgiveness.

So... God is intentionally setting impossible standards for all of us so we're forced to grovel?  Why should I require forgiveness for something that is literally impossible for me, or any human being, to avoid doing?

I agree with Leafsnail. I don't see how that would make any sense, and certainly don't think that is the reason for them. I think the main reason for them is relevance in their time, but I'm not really sure how that all works out.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[spoiler]

I believe this belongs here for some reason. Do not take this post as part of the discussion, I just wanted to throw this in here.

I think this is a really important thing that a lot of Christians seem to not understand.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I realize this. This issue is a large debate in the Christian world at the moment, and I don't really understand it. I have an idea though. Jesus said, "I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it." So maybe that means that he no longer wants people to persecute(or stone to death) homosexuals, but it's still a sin. I'm not sure if that makes sense, it's just an idea I had.

That's completely contrary to what he says. If he hasn't come to abolish the law and wishes it fulfilled instead, then obviously it is still valid.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with this story, but some religious leaders take a prostitute to Jesus, and since prostitution is punishable by death, they want him to condemn the woman and stone her. Under the law of the Old Testament, it's what he should have done. But he did not. He extended forgiveness to her. So I believe we are supposed to love, not condemn, homosexuals, but recognize that it is still a sin.

And what is the idea of sin to you?

[TheWetSheep]

I realize this. This issue is a large debate in the Christian world at the moment, and I don't really understand it. I have an idea though. Jesus said, "I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it." So maybe that means that he no longer wants people to persecute(or stone to death) homosexuals, but it's still a sin. I'm not sure if that makes sense, it's just an idea I had.

That's completely contrary to what he says. If he hasn't come to abolish the law and wishes it fulfilled instead, then obviously it is still valid.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with this story, but some religious leaders take a prostitute to Jesus, and since prostitution is punishable by death, they want him to condemn the woman and stone her. Under the law of the Old Testament, it's what he should have done. But he did not. He extended forgiveness to her. So I believe we are supposed to love, not condemn, homosexuals, but recognize that it is still a sin.

And what is the idea of sin to you?

Like I said, I don't really understand these things. As to the question about sin, the textbook answer for a Christian would be an act against God's will. I'm not absolutely sure what I personally think about it, though. But I think the picture Hanslanda shared is really important. Jesus, who is fulfilling the law, took a completely non-violent, loving, forgiving stance, and so it is quite obvious that he doesn't want us to go around killing all the homosexuals. I realize there is the contradiction with the whole, "No letter of the law shall be erased", and I'm not sure about what that means. I do think the whole "relevance to the time" thing has something to do with it. Another easy way out would be to say that some things might have been messed up in translation, and that would be nice to believe, but I really doubt it.

[Pnx]

I never got what god was supposed to have against homosexuals anyway. I mean, if you don't use your sex organs on the opposite sex and only the opposite sex you may have trouble redeeming your soul...? What the hell kind of warranty is that?

[Moghjubar]

Ah, religion, contradictions, and changing of stances.  (Finally can't hold myself away from the religion discussion funtime)

Go KILL your son!
Later...
Lol JK its just a test, now cut off his penis


Murder all these people and rape their women
Later...
Ok, you shouldn't be murdering people, thats a bad thing.

Take all these laws and severely punish those that break them
Later...
Ok, well, now I guess you shouldn't be so harsh on them after all.  Love, mmkay?


Meanwhile, in another dimension....

Oh, these seem like perfectly fine teachings
Later...
Ugh! Obviously they were from the devil! Strike these Satanic Verses!

Meanwhile, at the legion of Mormon...

The blacks are inferior forever due to opposing GOD!
Later...
Ok, well, white just meant pure, and blacks can now be good! Thru hard work!

....


What are some other religions BS?  I haven't done much studying of Eastern religions, or Native American, or Aborigine.
I've also forgot a bunch of the good ol Greek/Roman stuff, even though I see it all the damn time, thx media!

Norse stuff I mostly see in media as well, what all does that have in it? Never got into depth with it.

Theres plenty more religions out there of course, if you have examples please let me know, I'm collecting contradictions and neverminds.

[G-Flex]

Lol JK its just a test, now cut off his penis

Huh.

[Loud Whispers]

Murder all these people and rape their women
Later...
Ok, you shouldn't be murdering people, thats a bad thing.

Well in context, this is actually wrong. It's not murder, it's killing and it was A-OK because they did it faw gawd. And it wasn't rape because the women belonged to them at that point. Kinda worse really.

[malloc]

We are all atheists in one way or another. I mean, there are so many gods to believe in, it is silly.
I kinda like the old greek/roman/norse gods. They were personifications of various human emotions, traits, and habits. It reminds me of something a good psychologist could do, when helping people realize their problems or something.

My personal stance is as long as religion is a personal thing, something you don't force down on anyone, not even your own children, you can believe in whatever you want.
But when you try to force religion into education or politics, you are probably doing religion wrong, and you should feel bad.

[miauw62]

My personal stance is as long as religion is a personal thing, something you don't force down on anyone, not even your own children, you can believe in whatever you want.
But when you try to force religion into education or politics, you are probably doing religion wrong, and you should feel bad.

+1


Imho, the bible is just really, really outdated. If it was not written, it wouldnt have really changed anything in that time.

[Leafsnail]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[spoiler]

I believe this belongs here for some reason. Do not take this post as part of the discussion, I just wanted to throw this in here.

He didn't stutter, but he did say he came to fulfill scripture which tells you to kill gays.  There's definitely confusion here and just saying that people who are anti-gay are NO TRUE CHRISTIANS is not valid, considering they are merely following a piece of scripture that many Christians do not.  You could argue that his peace and love message means he no longer wants you to kill them, but that doesn't mean he'd necessarily want to erase it as a sin completely.

[Sheb]

Anyway, didn't Jesus died to redeem us of our sin? So didn't he die so that gay could have all the steamy, dirty, slimy gay sex they want?

[Phmcw]

Anyway, didn't Jesus died to redeem us of our sin? So didn't he die so that gay could have all the steamy, dirty, slimy gay sex they want?

Hehehe yeah, but it's all about interpretation, and some pretty small disagreement over the doctrine gave us centuries of war, culminating in the 30 years war.
Somehow, Christians became much more civil in religious debates, when you think about it.

InB4 the first great communist doctrine war (does stalin's purges counts?). I think us human just love killing the shit out of each other ( another round of call of duty anyone?)