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[UristMcDwarf]

No!

How about this?

A player casts a spell, which is a cone that is 50 feet long, okay? How am I to determine exactly what squares this spell hits? I know it's 50 feet long down the middle, but what about squares on the side?

[fenrif]

Mr Wiggles did a nice little diagram for you to show how this works. :S

I'm like 100% sure this is covered in the handbooks...

[UristMcDwarf]

Mr Wiggles did a nice little diagram for you to show how this works. :S

I'm like 100% sure this is covered in the handbooks...

Not really, no. The rulebook is more like

"YO. FUCKIN' QUARTER CIRCLE, HERE ARE SOME EXAMPLES. FIGURE IT OUT."

[Sirian]

a bit more googling gave me this :
Cone: "A cone-shaped spell shoots away from you in a quarter circle in the direction you designate.  It starts from any corner of your square and widens out as it goes."

Area: "Regardless of the shape of the area, you select the point where the spell originates, but otherwise you don't control which creatures or objects the spell affects.  The point of origin of a spell is always a grid intersection.  When determining whether a given creature is within the area of a spell, count out the distance from the point of origin in squares just as you do when moving a character, or when determining the range for a ranged attack.   The only difference is that instead of counting from the center of one square to the center of the next you count from intersection to intersection.  You can count diagonally across a square, but rememeber that every second diagonal counts as two squares of distance.  If the far edge of a square is within the spells area, anything within that square is within the spells area.  If the spell's area only touches the near edge of a square, however, anything within that square is unaffected by the spell."

I think that should cover your questions

[UristMcDwarf]

a bit more googling gave me this :
Cone: "A cone-shaped spell shoots away from you in a quarter circle in the direction you designate.  It starts from any corner of your square and widens out as it goes."

Area: "Regardless of the shape of the area, you select the point where the spell originates, but otherwise you don't control which creatures or objects the spell affects.  The point of origin of a spell is always a grid intersection.  When determining whether a given creature is within the area of a spell, count out the distance from the point of origin in squares just as you do when moving a character, or when determining the range for a ranged attack.   The only difference is that instead of counting from the center of one square to the center of the next you count from intersection to intersection.  You can count diagonally across a square, but rememeber that every second diagonal counts as two squares of distance.  If the far edge of a square is within the spells area, anything within that square is within the spells area.  If the spell's area only touches the near edge of a square, however, anything within that square is unaffected by the spell."

I think that should cover your questions

This is good!

[Myroc]

No!

How about this?

A player casts a spell, which is a cone that is 50 feet long, okay? How am I to determine exactly what squares this spell hits? I know it's 50 feet long down the middle, but what about squares on the side?

As with everything else about DMing, if you're not sure exactly how something works, wing it. Use your own judgement* concerning how much any given square is covered by the area of the spell to decide whether it hits anything in that square or not.

*Seriously, this is DMing 101 here, it shouldn't be too difficult.

[Sirian]

a bit more googling gave me this :
Cone: "A cone-shaped spell shoots away from you in a quarter circle in the direction you designate.  It starts from any corner of your square and widens out as it goes."

Area: "Regardless of the shape of the area, you select the point where the spell originates, but otherwise you don't control which creatures or objects the spell affects.  The point of origin of a spell is always a grid intersection.  When determining whether a given creature is within the area of a spell, count out the distance from the point of origin in squares just as you do when moving a character, or when determining the range for a ranged attack.   The only difference is that instead of counting from the center of one square to the center of the next you count from intersection to intersection.  You can count diagonally across a square, but rememeber that every second diagonal counts as two squares of distance.  If the far edge of a square is within the spells area, anything within that square is within the spells area.  If the spell's area only touches the near edge of a square, however, anything within that square is unaffected by the spell."

I think that should cover your questions

This is good!

Yea basically the only difference is if you're using a different rule than the "every second diagonal counts as two squares of distance". In which case, use whatever rule you're using for movement and apply it the same way.

[UristMcDwarf]

Another tiny thing.

A burst should effect things about things, right? It's an explosion, not a 2D shape thing.
How does that work out?

[fenrif]

A burst should effect things about things, right? It's an explosion, not a 2D shape thing.

Things often do things to other things, but sometimes some other thing gets the thing to thing a different thing.

The rulebooks definatly explain these things dude. Otherwise the millions of people who play D&D would all be asking about the things that effect the things things? :S

[Sirian]

According to http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/area-effect-diagrams :


"2d Grids and Planes or 3d Cubes and Spheres?

Are spell and other area of effects 2d (as in, they affect a flat grid only) or are they 3d (as in, they affect cubes and spheres)?

Just because things are normally expressed on a flat grid doesn't mean they're actually flat. Any effect with a radius affects a sphere, not a circle. A cone is a 3d area. A line is a line, not a plane.

[Source]"

[UristMcDwarf]

According to http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/area-effect-diagrams :


"2d Grids and Planes or 3d Cubes and Spheres?

Are spell and other area of effects 2d (as in, they affect a flat grid only) or are they 3d (as in, they affect cubes and spheres)?

Just because things are normally expressed on a flat grid doesn't mean they're actually flat. Any effect with a radius affects a sphere, not a circle. A cone is a 3d area. A line is a line, not a plane.

[Source]"

Yeah, that's what inspired my question. How do I know how high it reaches or something like that?

[Sirian]

At this point it's really the DM's judgement (yours it you're the DM). Imagine the whole thing in your head, approximate a lot, decide by yourself whatever suits you the most if it's fuzzy enough.
That, or make a 3d grid 

[Biag]

What Sirian said. 3-dimensional fights get bogged down really fast if you're worrying about the exact physical dimensions of everything.

[sambojin]

This isn't official, but it worked for me when I was playing. We tended to make the height of spells and effects smaller than their width, just because it worked better. We sometimes played on some old Warhammer, Mordheim and Necromunda scenery, and we found that this sort of stuff worked pretty well (with a range rule using inches for squares and a piece of grid paper that we'd put down anywhere on the battlefield for "instant" dungeon grids in outdoor environments. Lots of grid paper, we just had a book that we'd cut up to approximately the right shape to fit around terrain each time. Or just guestimate). Use "perspex" for a good see-through material to make range-cones out of.

Cone 2D: use a quarter circle. Make it out of see-through plastic. Have lines drawn on it for every 5 feet range (ie, each inch). Draw them with a compass. Then use the quarter cirlce.

Cone 3D: make another quarter circle. Cut it in half so that it's an 1/8th circle. Draw range lines on it. Then turn it on it's side and use it for "height" or depth of attacks to see if your normal 2d-cone hits something heigher or lower than you. Middle of cone is aimed at the initial target (so only 22.5 degress up/down of that is affected). If you're on a ledge, you can aim down (or whenever you want if you want to self-nuke). You can also aim up whenever you want. You can glue one to a quarter circle if you split it in half and glue it to the top and bottom on it's side, if you want a handy, all-in-one cone aiming tool.

Burst (area). While stuff is meant to be spherical, it's a good idea to fudge it not to be (ie:less height than width) if playing with destructable scenery. This is so you don't accidently nuke everyone or drop the ceiling on their heads. But yeah, just use a sphere because it's easy. Use a ruler to check range. Then make it smaller in the vertical axis. About 3/5ths for vertical/horizontal worked alright we found.

Flattening the area makes a lot more sense if you play in a 3D wargaming environment in 3.5DnD. It kind of simulates gravity. But mainly it's so that one cone spell can't wipe out and entire tower of archers in one cast. Areas/volumes get pretty huge in an outside (or huge inside) 3D environment

[sluissa]

Pick a somewhat appropriate number. Roll a somewhat appropriate die. (Or dice if you must.) Determine what the appropriate result would be based upon the originally chosen number and the result displayed upon the rolled di(c)e.

As others have said, fudge it. This is storytelling, not geometry.

Honestly people get way too caught up on the combat aspect of these games and I can almost guarantee players are putting more thought into it than the creators did.