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[Erkki]

Yeah, modifying the joystick curves has taken care of the lift issue, apparently most WW1 planes are designed to climb at neutral for some reason but I don't have as much freedom of motion on a hand joystick as they did so whatever.  And no, there's no trimming.  There's also no bailing out.  I feel like I could love this game if I get the hang of it.  It's hardcore.  Slow-ass planes with rifle-caliber guns that can't hit past 150 meters.  No rigid superstructure, no extreme aerodynamic stresses ripping your plane apart whenever you get a tap, no incendiary rounds and autocannons to fuck you up with a glancing shot.  Seems like the engine and the pilot are the only things you can reliably kill a plane with unless you just shoot the wing up so bad it tears away.  No need to worry about deflection shooting since you can't hit anything at that range.

I've always followed Erich Hartmann's strategy; don't shoot until the target fills your gunsight and once you start don't stop until it's in pieces.  This seems right up my alley as far as that goes.

What kind of a response curve do you use? I'm a great fan of linear response for all control axis myself with no dead zone or filtering. Only rudder has shallowed curve near the center.

I think Hartmann used to basically "camp" in the areas of known high activity - he was a known ace and and later a regiment commander so he had the priviledge of flying pretty much the way he wished without being bound patrolling a certain area or escorting bombers or strike aircraft. He basically flew free hunting all the time through most of his career and had free hands to engage and disengage where he wished, how he wished, had a personal aircraft(or 3... like Rudel and Galland) and picked his wingmen.

I have an old/cheap joystick with some issues around neutral so I have to use a curve, though I'm still figuring out the details of it.  Finally got a legitimate kill on an enemy fighter.  Also got a kill on a bomber with the Albatros's trophy Lewis gun, that was easy.

But this is beginning to feel pointless.  Joysticks have never been any good for me.  I find it impossible to maintain situational awareness.  I've been using a mouse so long that I've got a feel for where it is, so even if I look away I can maintain a maneuver.  On a joystick though even though intuitively I should be able to feel that since I can feel where I'm pulling the stick, I can't do it.  If I look away for a second I may as well start flopping the joystick everywhere, and when you throw an enemy in I find it basically impossible to use a joystick.

Tried facetracknoir to take some of the load off my hands, and it seemed pretty cool, but in what's become a pattern with Rise of Flight its settings and sensitivity changed at random without input from me, and eventually it stopped working altogether.  Every time I turned it on it misread my face as pointing in a different direction.  I guess I'll have to put together a tracking clip if I really want to do it properly.

When using a stick, do you support your arm up to the elbow like you probably do when using a mouse? I think facetracknoir like TrackIR has a reset/center button that can be assigned.

[Cthulhu]

I'm not sure, I'd have to open up RoF and see what I do.  Never paid attention to it.

Aside from that my biggest issue is that the hat switch has a giant blind spot in my high 6 o'clock, which is where enemies love to be.  If they're there I can't see them, period.

[Erkki]

I'm not sure, I'd have to open up RoF and see what I do.  Never paid attention to it.

Aside from that my biggest issue is that the hat switch has a giant blind spot in my high 6 o'clock, which is where enemies love to be.  If they're there I can't see them, period.

Usually direct 6 o clock is blind any way, with fuselage and tail blocking the view. The trick is to look at low 7 or 5 o clock and then roll just a bit to see to both your direct and lower 6 without losing speed.

[Anvilfolk]

The joystick definitely takes a long time to get used to, but it's the only way you are going to get accurate control over a WW2 airplane. I don't know if that's your case but the whole Warthunder experience has gotten people used to a very "corrupt" take on controlling planes. Once you get used to it, it'll be better though, and will also feel more realistic.

I find it very hard to use my CH joystick because it doesn't have springs, so I don't get the physical feedback which tells me how hard I am pulling on the stick. It's the same with the mouse - it doesn't tell you where the mouse pointer is in absolute terms, which springs do. This is also the reason I prefer the TrackIR - your head position tells you the absolute direction in which you are looking, which moving the mouse around doesn't. Before I got it, I'd sometimes lose track of where I was looking at (though not very often).

That said, Erkki here is one of the best pilots I know, and he uses joystick+mouse.

Don't WW1 planes have a lot better rear visibility than WW2 ones though? Normally if you just twist it far enough you can see almost everything. Not that your neck would allow you to in real life

[Erkki]

That was one reason why I felt linear response natural to me initially: the response is the same regargless of where the stick is or trims are. Il-2 and most other sims do have the control authority limited by pilot strength though and controls become heavier at higher speeds, but still. Im so used to flying with stick & rudder that I dont even adjudt the trims - I just set them somewhere for the duration of the flight.

[Cthulhu]

My issue isn't seeing behind me or below, it's high.  I can look straight up and I can look directly behind me.  Anything behind my straight-up view or above my rear view, I can't see without using the mouse to look.  That's a pretty important place to be able to see overall.  If someone's bouncing me I'm pretty much fucked because I can't see them even if I'm looking for them.

[Erkki]

My issue isn't seeing behind me or below, it's high.  I can look straight up and I can look directly behind me.  Anything behind my straight-up view or above my rear view, I can't see without using the mouse to look.  That's a pretty important place to be able to see overall.  If someone's bouncing me I'm pretty much fucked because I can't see them even if I'm looking for them.

Hmm. Usually they arent there... Have you checked if you can, say, widen the field of view to help with that? Cant recall if Rise of Flight had FOV adjustment similar to il-2.

[Cthulhu]

It doesn't.  And for me at least it seems like enemies are very often in that range.  It's pretty much exactly where an enemy would be in a boom and zoom attempt.  I might scavenge some LEDs from something and put together a tracking clip for FreeTrack, since TracknoIR is wonky.

Still, I feel like I'm slowly improving.  I stopped trying to deal with the elevator trim and set my controls to linear save for rudder control which I put on an S curve (I'm terrible with the rudder and need a lot of precision to keep my aim steady)

Still having some trouble with maneuvers though and I've got some questions.  I have no idea what the different planes do, aside from German planes being better at turn fighting and British having better vertical performance.  I'm using the Albatros D.Va, and at least the way I'm doing it now I have basically no vertical capacity at all.  I can't do a loop, I stall too hard to do an Immelmann, etc. etc.  I also have horrible horrible roll.  Generally trying to roll to put my vector on someone will cause the plane to sort of swing to the new orientation rather than smoothly rolling, throwing my guns off completely.

I'm wondering if this is stuff I have to get accustomed to, or issues with the plane I'm using, or if I'm just not managing energy well because I'm not used to flying biplanes.

[Duuvian]

If I recall correctly the Albatross D.Va actually performed worse than the DIII as it was heavier. If you can try to fly a DVII, if Red Baron 2 was accurate it has a really nice engine for the period, only a Spad 13 could catch it and the DVII is a better turner than the Spad 13. If you want to fly a really slow plane that can turn incredibly well take a Fokker Dr. 1 Triplane. It can spin 180 degrees very quickly with it's rudder alone. It also can gain altitude very quickly, but as I mentioned it's so slow you'll never escape if you have to run away and it can't dive very fast at all due to all the lift and air resistance from the wings.

To do a loop you might have to dive a little first to pick up speed, but not so steeply you damage your aeroplane.

I might have been doing it wrong due to relaxed flight models but to do an Immelman you climb until you start running out of speed and then rudder your nose towards the ground.

[Erkki]

That'd be a wingover, Immelman is just half a loop + half a roll on the top.

Gotta keep eyes on the airspeed Cthulhu. 

[Cthulhu]

That's the modern Immelmann, he's right about the original.

Spoiler: The original (click to show/hide)

[Erkki]

Still. Why'd you want to use it?

[Spacefaye]

What's a good combat flight simulator? (War Thunder doesn't work for me.)

[Cthulhu]

It's risky since it puts you at near stall speed, if you do it at the wrong time you'll just get shot up, but it basically lets you come down on any heading you want, good for BnZing.

I like the modern Immelmann too, I do that and the split-s instead of turning at high altitude, but it's hard to do anything vertical in these planes.

Channel Battles is 25 bucks on steam.

[Erkki]

Yeah the thing is if you go up for a wing over, a plane with same or close initial E will always catch you. So its always a risky maneuver. It can quite easily kill your situational awareness too. I guess its less risky with the very slow biplanes...