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Author Topic: Gnomoria: Is this the next DF-Like?  (Read 92229 times)

RoboB0b

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Re: Gnomoria: Is this the next DF-Like?
« Reply #60 on: June 12, 2012, 04:10:26 pm »

Hey everyone, Gnomoria dev here. :D  I wanted to say hi and introduce myself.

I'm not sure how much detail I should get into but it seems like some people would like to know more about my motivations.  When I made the decision to quit my job and work from home, I knew what kind of game I wanted to make.  My skills center around programming and systems design.  I play a ton of video games and board games and to some degree that enjoyment is seeing how the different mechanics and gameplay systems work together.  I love how from a simple set of rules, complex behavior can emerge.  I think anyone familiar with Stephen Wolfram's "A New Kind of Science" knows exactly what I'm talking about.

Anyways, if I had the chance to follow my dreams and work on anything I wanted, it would be exploring things like procedurally generated content, AI and designing clear systems that work together in interesting ways.  I also wanted to have a game on top of this sandbox, with conflict and something to lose and not just an open toy box to play in.  I love management games and think they are underexplored.  Aside from that, working on a management game fits with the kind of development I enjoy and goes along with what I know.  So, it wasn't even something I thought about.  I knew it was what I was going to work on.  I figure, if I'm going to quit my job, I should work on what I love and make a game that I would like to play, otherwise what's the point?  The risk is hoping that there are enough people that would also like to play this game and the rewards are being happy with my work and spending time with my family.

DF is the king of this genre and frankly, Tarn Adams is a genius.  The fact that he is following his dreams and doing what he loves should be an inspiration to everyone.  It's kind of impossible to do anything without stepping on something he's done.  I have no intention of replacing DF and I don't see how that would even be possible if I wanted to.  Every decision and gameplay system that makes it into Gnomoria is there because I felt like it was necessary to acheive what I wanted or it made the game better.  At times, I've had a goal for the game and am experimenting with solutions and trying to solve the problem in a way that cleanly fits in with the rest of the game.  I might find a solution and then realize that it's something in DF, and briefly think, "Oh I shouldn't add this".  But then, if it makes the game better, why wouldn't I add it?  I'm not complaining, but I think I better understand the "Simpsons Already Did it" episode of South Park.

There was a post commenting on my plans for release.  I probably mislead some people.  I plan on continuing development as long as I can, but I don't plan on being in alpha forever.  I don't want Gnomoria to have an "in development" or "work in progress" feel.  When it reaches a point where it's stable, polished and has enough content to where you could compare it to other "finished" indie games, I will consider it "released".  My plan at that point, is to continue offering free updates with more gameplay systems and additional content for existing systems.  In it's current state, this is the bare minimum I felt it could have to be playable and enjoyable.  I have a lot planned, but I don't like making promises until I can back it up.  I'd rather put it in the game and show it when it's ready.  Right now, my focus is on fixing bugs and usability, but I am really excited to work on more features soon.

I think it's natural that this genre is expanding.  For a lot of reasons, I'm excited to see other games pop up in the future.  I don't think very many people are deciding between donating to Tarn or preordering Gnomoria.  If that is the case, please donate to Tarn instead.  What I hope happens, is that Gnomoria brings more people into the genre and they feel less intimidated to try DF and eventually that leads to a donation.
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christonian

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Re: Gnomoria: Is this the next DF-Like?
« Reply #61 on: June 12, 2012, 04:54:37 pm »

lol I will link to this description for people interested in more details about you in case they want more then the 2 paragraphs you gave me for the video

RoboB0b

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Re: Gnomoria: Is this the next DF-Like?
« Reply #62 on: June 12, 2012, 05:02:27 pm »

lol I will link to this description for people interested in more details about you in case they want more then the 2 paragraphs you gave me for the video

Oh hi, christonian! :D  I wasn't sure how much detail you wanted me to get into and I didn't want to throw a long boring email at you :P  I'm looking forward to seeing your video!
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Gnomoria: Is this the next DF-Like?
« Reply #63 on: June 12, 2012, 05:15:02 pm »

Man, I definitely know the feeling  - whenever you have any relatively new genre like this, you want to do you own thing but you look at the games already in the genre and realize there's so much they did write that you really can't bring yourself to throw away.

People have come to accept that sort of industry borrowing in shooters and rpgs, just because there are so many, but "clones", games that follow the same formula but add their own twists to it (rather than true clones, which are the same game released by another company, occasionally with a new name and a reskin), are a necessary and healthy part of progress.

So I wish you luck, man.

Not going to buy it, of course, because I can't stand windows only developers. Foo to you!
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hemmingjay

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Re: Gnomoria: Is this the next DF-Like?
« Reply #64 on: June 12, 2012, 05:24:57 pm »

Well after my enjoyment of the game and seeing Robobob on the forum here, let's host a giveaway to promote it a bit. I'll put up a contest thread in a minute and I'll giveaway 10 copies. That should help Bay12 and also help SEO for Gnomoria.
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RoboB0b

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Re: Gnomoria: Is this the next DF-Like?
« Reply #65 on: June 12, 2012, 05:30:39 pm »

Thanks GlyphGryph!

Not going to buy it, of course, because I can't stand windows only developers. Foo to you!

Haha, I can't blame you :D  It's something I'll consider later, but I'm not sure how much I screwed myself with C#.

Well after my enjoyment of the game and seeing Robobob on the forum here, let's host a giveaway to promote it a bit. I'll put up a contest thread in a minute and I'll giveaway 10 copies. That should help Bay12 and also help SEO for Gnomoria.

Let the games begin!
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JanusTwoface

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Re: Gnomoria: Is this the next DF-Like?
« Reply #66 on: June 12, 2012, 05:35:56 pm »

Not going to buy it, of course, because I can't stand windows only developers. Foo to you!

Haha, I can't blame you :D  It's something I'll consider later, but I'm not sure how much I screwed myself with C#.
What libraries are you using? For the the core of .NET (up through .NET 4) at least, Mono can run a surprising number of programs on Linux. The only worries might whatever third party libraries you are using. XNA doesn't work (at least last time I checked) but you can get SDL.NET working (it's what I use). SFML.net takes some work, but it's doable. Others, who knows. So it's theoretically possible at least.
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You may think I'm crazy / And I think you may be right
But life is ever so much more fun / If you are the crazy one

My blog: Photography, Programming, Writing
Novels: A Sea of Stars, Confession

GlyphGryph

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Re: Gnomoria: Is this the next DF-Like?
« Reply #67 on: June 12, 2012, 05:37:36 pm »

Yeah, I was about to add, it's not C# that would screw over ports so much as platform specific libraries. Ignore those, and C# isn't really much worse than Java.
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RoboB0b

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Re: Gnomoria: Is this the next DF-Like?
« Reply #68 on: June 12, 2012, 05:39:15 pm »

What libraries are you using? For the the core of .NET (up through .NET 4) at least, Mono can run a surprising number of programs on Linux. The only worries might whatever third party libraries you are using. XNA doesn't work (at least last time I checked) but you can get SDL.NET working (it's what I use). SFML.net takes some work, but it's doable. Others, who knows. So it's theoretically possible at least.

From XNA, I'm using SpriteBatch and some of the serialization stuff.  I'm also using SevenZipSharp and and a C# port of libnoise.  I think it might be doable, but I haven't looked into it yet and don't want to make any promises :D
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Gnomoria: Is this the next DF-Like?
« Reply #69 on: June 12, 2012, 05:44:17 pm »

From what I understand, if you've got even a touch of XNA in there it's a no-go. Don't know about SevenZipSharp.

And I really don't know enough about C# to say any more than that... I know we've got someone on the forum who does, though. Hmm... maybe I'll bring it up on the coding thread, see how difficult it would be.
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JanusTwoface

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Re: Gnomoria: Is this the next DF-Like?
« Reply #70 on: June 12, 2012, 05:49:47 pm »

What libraries are you using? For the the core of .NET (up through .NET 4) at least, Mono can run a surprising number of programs on Linux. The only worries might whatever third party libraries you are using. XNA doesn't work (at least last time I checked) but you can get SDL.NET working (it's what I use). SFML.net takes some work, but it's doable. Others, who knows. So it's theoretically possible at least.

From XNA, I'm using SpriteBatch and some of the serialization stuff.  I'm also using SevenZipSharp and and a C# port of libnoise.  I think it might be doable, but I haven't looked into it yet and don't want to make any promises :D

For XNA: Mono.XNA or MonoGame. The latter looks more promising, although I haven't used it. It definitely can be done, as there are XNA projects ported to all sorts of things, including the iPhone, but it's been years since I've looked at it.

For SevenZipSharp and LibNoise: They wrap a native library (at least the former does, don't know which library you're using for the latter), so it'll be a bit of work on your end to get them to work. I'd try taking SevenZipSharp and using either the so / dylib version of the library and seeing if you can get it to load correctly. Might work.
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You may think I'm crazy / And I think you may be right
But life is ever so much more fun / If you are the crazy one

My blog: Photography, Programming, Writing
Novels: A Sea of Stars, Confession

GlyphGryph

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Re: Gnomoria: Is this the next DF-Like?
« Reply #71 on: June 12, 2012, 05:52:52 pm »

Oh, I know there's been ATTEMPTS to get XNA to work. I've just never met anyone who's actually managed to get them to do so. :P
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ductape

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Re: Gnomoria: Is this the next DF-Like?
« Reply #72 on: June 12, 2012, 08:17:07 pm »

RoboBob, you mentioned INcredible Machine so I hope that means more mechanics. I want fluid simuation with all the interactions that can come with plus all sorts of levers, pates, axels, etc to make amazing automated dwarven Gnomish forts villages of death.

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Xinvoker

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Re: Gnomoria: Is this the next DF-Like?
« Reply #73 on: June 13, 2012, 05:53:12 am »

I wanted to say that I bought the game, and the dev (Robob0b) is very responsive on the forum, both in the bug report and the suggestion section.
He really seems like he likes what he's doing and I think we'll end up with a great game.  :)

A bit about the "target audience"
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Leatra

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Re: Gnomoria: Is this the next DF-Like?
« Reply #74 on: June 13, 2012, 07:35:04 am »

More games inspired from DF, better. I don't care if it's a rip-off or a simple inspiration or just a likeness.
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