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Author Topic: Cartoon/Western Animation Thread.  (Read 322395 times)

Neonivek

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Re: Cartoon/Western Animation Thread. -- Bill is watching.
« Reply #1725 on: December 23, 2014, 05:44:53 am »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Not going to break my no complaining rule.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 07:59:58 am by Neonivek »
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penguinofhonor

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Re: Cartoon/Western Animation Thread. -- Bill is watching.
« Reply #1726 on: December 23, 2014, 09:20:41 am »

.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 12:15:54 am by penguinofhonor »
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Neonivek

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Re: Cartoon/Western Animation Thread. -- Bill is watching.
« Reply #1727 on: December 23, 2014, 09:24:44 am »

Spoiler: Korra (click to show/hide)

Cause otherwise it is just a switch... you just got to jiggle the handle

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Though here is another way I could interpret it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 09:37:51 am by Neonivek »
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Glowcat

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Re: Cartoon/Western Animation Thread. -- Bill is watching.
« Reply #1728 on: December 23, 2014, 10:12:16 am »

There was also the longer version of how their romance developed behind the scenes from the developer perspective.

http://bryankonietzko.tumblr.com/post/105916338157/korrasami-is-canon-you-can-celebrate-it-embrace
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Neonivek

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Re: Cartoon/Western Animation Thread. -- Bill is watching.
« Reply #1729 on: December 23, 2014, 04:05:28 pm »

There was also the longer version of how their romance developed behind the scenes from the developer perspective.

http://bryankonietzko.tumblr.com/post/105916338157/korrasami-is-canon-you-can-celebrate-it-embrace

Ehh tokenism.

Go big or go home.

Making it very ambiguous, to the point where it is just friendship, because the networks won't allow it and then filling in that info after the fact hardly counts within the context of the show.

There is only one guy I like who fills in a lot of important info after the fact. The guy who writes One Piece. Mostly because he always makes up the craziest stuff for it.

Though I've long since Forgiven Kim Possible for doing it MOSTLY because while yes the "of course they are in love" aspect was forced, they actually didn't start them out as best lovers. They actually had to build up their new relationship.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 04:12:50 pm by Neonivek »
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Putnam

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Re: Cartoon/Western Animation Thread. -- Bill is watching.
« Reply #1730 on: December 23, 2014, 04:16:22 pm »

Neonivek

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Re: Cartoon/Western Animation Thread. -- Bill is watching.
« Reply #1731 on: December 23, 2014, 04:18:12 pm »

It is mostly towards the first link, not the one I quoted.

Unfortunately complaining rule kicks in.

So I can only state facts.

Though I do like the idea that MAYBE this will push the envelope enough (well not really because you have to read the Word of God to even know this for a fact... and accept Post show word of god canon as well) that they might change the rating system.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 04:49:39 pm by Neonivek »
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Bauglir

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Re: Cartoon/Western Animation Thread. -- Bill is watching.
« Reply #1732 on: December 23, 2014, 10:24:59 pm »

I get the criticism about it feeling like a token addition - I, too, wish they'd actually put something definitive on-screen. But this isn't like the Dumbledore situation. We actually did have some hints in the series to suggest it was going to happen. Yeah, there's nothing that conclusively proves it, but insisting that there has to be is just drawing a little box around what you think is the Right Way to do things. Literally the only thing we were missing from a typical love story arc was the 'I love you' moment, which they could easily have slipped in at the end (that they didn't is my biggest complaint, but they definitely had enough buildup that it would've been plausible had it happened). No, there's nothing about their behavior that rules out friendship, but there's nothing that rules out romance either - there's a lot overlap there, which should be unsurprising.

Complaining that it should've ended without a romance seems equally misguided. Don't get me wrong, I'd love more stories to do that, but you can't expect every kind of progress from a single work. Getting us out of the "Which boy will Korra end up with" box is good no matter how they do it, and I'm not about about to demand every television show aimed at teenagers forgo the absolute most reliable narrative device in a coming-of-age story. Somehow, this particular objection seems to escape notice in most other shows (and I sure as hell didn't see it happen when Korra started dating Mako).

Don't get me wrong, I think it could be better, but I haven't heard any criticism so far that boils down to anything other than "I can't handle subtlety in my progressive narratives", which is absurd since the lack of it is something people have been complaining about for ages, or else "It wasn't good in the way I wanted it to be good", which is hardly a damning piece of criticism. Sure, I have absolutely no doubt that they avoided making it an explicit pairing because of a directive from on high, or else an expectation that it would be forbidden if they tried it, but I think that the work they produced was actually fine in spite of all that, at least on these terms.

Now, on a purely emotional level, I really do wish they'd have kissed on screen, but that's because it would've been more satisfying to me as a shipper (god, homestuck's influence on me will never end). But that's a different thing.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

Neonivek

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Re: Cartoon/Western Animation Thread. -- Bill is watching.
« Reply #1733 on: December 23, 2014, 10:50:43 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Here is the thing about Dumbledore... It didn't matter. It didn't change the story or the narrative in any meaningful sense. Most of the backlash was because it was a piece of information that should have been included narratively.

People rightfully complained because that is bad storytelling.

As well there is a difference between ambiguous and subtle. Just watch the scene with Korra and Mako during the heat wave.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 11:09:12 pm by Neonivek »
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Bauglir

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Re: Cartoon/Western Animation Thread. -- Bill is watching.
« Reply #1734 on: December 23, 2014, 11:11:35 pm »

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree with the Dumbledore thing. It's just simply not the case here, because it clearly did affect the narrative (and it's one of the most common comparisons I see, especially by people who think they didn't go too far enough). As I've said, though, I don't buy the argument that they didn't get together at the end. Word of God changes nothing.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

Neonivek

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Re: Cartoon/Western Animation Thread. -- Bill is watching.
« Reply #1735 on: December 23, 2014, 11:14:32 pm »

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree with the Dumbledore thing. It's just simply not the case here, because it clearly did affect the narrative (and it's one of the most common comparisons I see, especially by people who think they didn't go too far enough). As I've said, though, I don't buy the argument that they didn't get together at the end. Word of God changes nothing.

Ultimately though it ALL hinges on ONE line.

The shipping is held together by exactly one line in the whole 4th season.

Because most of their relationship is built up, off screen with the exact nature of it never being revealed. They had about 3 personal scenes together, of which none of them were romantic in nature without any of them really trying to explore the other... In fact they specifically try to avoid talking about each other to each other.

I feel that without that one line, it would be ambiguous to you as well.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 11:35:13 pm by Neonivek »
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Sheb

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Re: Cartoon/Western Animation Thread. -- Bill is watching.
« Reply #1736 on: January 02, 2015, 04:17:56 pm »

So I'm watching Legend of Korra now. As far as I can tell, it's about a spoiled kid joining a magician death squad to go and arrest muggles daring to oppose the current magistico-fascist regime, killing those that resist. I seriously like the guy that's supposed to be the villain a lot better.
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cerapa

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Re: Cartoon/Western Animation Thread. -- Bill is watching.
« Reply #1737 on: January 02, 2015, 04:22:59 pm »

They don't actually kill people.

But yeah, that's pretty much season one from an equalist perspective.
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Sheb

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Re: Cartoon/Western Animation Thread. -- Bill is watching.
« Reply #1738 on: January 02, 2015, 04:25:46 pm »

I'm fairly certain sticking someone in a block of ice for extended period of time leaves you with a corpse.
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
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Bauglir

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Re: Cartoon/Western Animation Thread. -- Bill is watching.
« Reply #1739 on: January 02, 2015, 04:27:14 pm »

You'd think so, but do keep in mind that this is a world that more or less operates like a fantasy RPG. People are a lot more durable.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.
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