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[k9wazere]

Just a little background: I only play on zombie maps these days. Without zombies the game is way too happy and care-free. Zombies, as well all know, make everything better.

Naturally, I've been experimenting with automated defences/ zombie removal devices. You don't want to rely on your military to kill zombies, not with the insane re-animation rate.

The trouble I've been having is with pressure plates + animal triggers. Either war dogs or pigs which will run across the plates when the spot zombies, retracting bridges which drop zombies into lava. They are leashed next to the pressure plates, and their movement is predictable.

The trouble comes when the animal runs across the pressure plate too many times (pigs will panic and run back and forth across it), or when multiple creatures stand on the plate.

At these times, bridges will (with alarming regularity) lock in the "OFF"/"bridge usable" position. This is very pleasant - if you're a ZOMBIE, because it means FREE DWARF BRAINS FOR EVERYONE!!!

I'm now considering doing away with pressure plates, and using manual levers for everything.

It's safer (fewer unintended lava baths) and it's reliable - pull the lever, stuff happens!

Am I right in thinking this is a known bug? "ON" signals get lost when they come too close to an "OFF" signal? Or signals having to be in order? I.e. "ON, OFF, ON, OFF" works but "ON, ON, OFF, OFF" = locked bridge, everybody dies?

Really starting to pull my hair out with this one, because without reliable working pressure plates, my whole defensive strategy is ruined, and if I can't kill the zombies, my FPS tends to zero quite quickly...

[Klitri]

Why dont you just move the animals away from the pressure plates?
Or am I missing something?

[k9wazere]

Why dont you just move the animals away from the pressure plates?
Or am I missing something?

Well first I tried using the zombies to trigger their own death-traps. But the trouble comes when a zombie is standing on the plate when the bridge is raised/retracts. Then the zombie just keeps standing on the plate, and the traps never reset, and the terrori-- zombies win.

So I now use animals who can see the zombies through fortifications. The zombies path towards the (leashed) animal, the animal retreats (pig) or attacks (dog) and moves onto a pressure plate. This SHOULD activate the drawbridge, causing the zombie to plummet into lava (and the semi-molten-rock which will remove it from the world forever).

But instead the bridges are all "nah, too much like hard work, this retracting lark" and they lock in place in the usable state. And then the zombies are like "thanks, bridges, owe you one!" and then it's a brain buffet.

[vjek]

The way I got around this problem was to use a water source -> floodgate1 -> pressure plate -> floodgate2 -> fortifications-on-map-edge
bit of dwarven logic.

Then you put the animal-driven-pressure-plate to trigger the first floodgate (it will raise) and the bridge trigger on the water-driven-pressure-plate between the floodgates.  Then it doesn't matter how many times the animal steps on their pressure plate, the bridge will raise exactly once until floodgate1 is closed (no more activity) and floodgate2 is opened.

What conditions you use to determine when floodgate2 should be opened is entirely up to you.  It could be a lever behind a forbidden door that you only open when all is clear.

[k9wazere]

The way I got around this problem was to use a water source -> floodgate1 -> pressure plate -> floodgate2 -> fortifications-on-map-edge

I'll probably end up doing something very similar.

But the problems with pressure plates make me wonder how people are using repeating weapon traps against multiple hostiles.

Because I've observed that multiple creatures on a pressure plate will break any system involving bridges, hatches, doors, etc. They all get locked in the "closed" position at some point.

So when people say they use repeaters + weapon traps to deal with sieges & clowns, for example, how are they doing it?

[ab00]

Usually upright spikes linked to a repeater. They will never get stuck.

[k9wazere]

Usually upright spikes linked to a repeater. They will never get stuck.

Yeah but the problem isn't the weapon/trap, the problem is the repeater.

There are designs for fluid repeaters, etc, which are completely safe. But if you want the mobs to continually walk over the same trap, you have to make the mob part of the repeater, no?

And this normally involves pressure plate + hatch cover. The point being, you can almost guarantee the hatch cover will get jammed in the closed position sooner or later, letting whatever nasties you want to kill through the repeater and into your base.

Also the whole "one way door" thing works with hatch covers. More than one dwarf attempting to use said "one way door" means the system will fail, letting the dwarves out the wrong way. I've tried this to stop dwarves going out in a siege. That got messy.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Not at all! If you like, you can build a repeater up in a tower and connect it to everything from your danger room to the clown grinder to the mechanism that drops boulders onto the elves to a clock.

[k9wazere]

Not at all! If you like, you can build a repeater up in a tower and connect it to everything from your danger room to the clown grinder to the mechanism that drops boulders onto the elves to a clock.

Yeah the only thing I'm not understand is how to make the mobs walk backwards and forwards over the same trap, if your repeater is in a remote location.

From how I understand pathing to work, a mob will only cancel it's current path if it reaches an impassable tile. So the door at the end of a corridor could open and close several times, but the mob would carry on towards the door regardless (substitute bridge/hatch for door, whatever). The current path would only be invalid if, upon reaching the door, hatch or bridge, it was in an impassable state.

So with a remote repeater, isn't there a chance of the mob reaching a door/hatch/bridge which is passable?

I ask this because my understanding is, you need to set up a corridor with two exits, and alternative which exit is open and which is closed, making the mobs path between the two exits, but never able to actually get out...

[vidboi]

Why dont you just move the animals away from the pressure plates?
Or am I missing something?

Well first I tried using the zombies to trigger their own death-traps. But the trouble comes when a zombie is standing on the plate when the bridge is raised/retracts. Then the zombie just keeps standing on the plate, and the traps never reset, and the terrori-- zombies win.

So I now use animals who can see the zombies through fortifications. The zombies path towards the (leashed) animal, the animal retreats (pig) or attacks (dog) and moves onto a pressure plate. This SHOULD activate the drawbridge, causing the zombie to plummet into lava (and the semi-molten-rock which will remove it from the world forever).

But instead the bridges are all "nah, too much like hard work, this retracting lark" and they lock in place in the usable state. And then the zombies are like "thanks, bridges, owe you one!" and then it's a brain buffet.

Have you made sure that you've set the pressure to be triggerable by civilians, and set its weight low enough that the animals trigger it? That sounds like the most likely reason why they wouldn't trigger.

[k9wazere]

Have you made sure that you've set the pressure to be triggerable by civilians, and set its weight low enough that the animals trigger it? That sounds like the most likely reason why they wouldn't trigger.

Yes and yes.

Try it yourself: make a one-way entrance to your fortress, with a pressure plate which opens a hatch (to stop dwarves getting out again). Make sure there's something on the outside world that multiple dwarves want to go pick up (easy after a caravan gets ambushed). Use a bridge or a locked door to make sure they all try to go out at the same time.

If you can't get it to work fail, try chaining an animal next to the pressure plate (and make sure it can trigger).

Observe the hatch cover fail to work as intended, and that many of your dwarves will successfully get out.

Seriously, try it. It is 100% reproducible every time.

[gzoker]

I'm not sure if you are talking about the same thing. A repeater doesn't have to be anywhere near your traps, and by traps i mean upright spear/spike traps and not weapon traps. The mobs you want to kill are not going to go through your repeater, they have to path through (or into) an area filled with the spikes. The repeater does not connect to your entrance gate, so it won't interfere with the path finding of the mobs. You need a different circuit for that, but that depends on your design.

Also a simple dodge me trap can make wonders against the zombie horde.

[k9wazere]

I'm not sure if you are talking about the same thing. A repeater doesn't have to be anywhere near your traps, and by traps i mean upright spear/spike traps and not weapon traps. The mobs you want to kill are not going to go through your repeater, they have to path through (or into) an area filled with the spikes. The repeater does not connect to your entrance gate, so it won't interfere with the path finding of the mobs. You need a different circuit for that, but that depends on your design.

Also a simple dodge me trap can make wonders against the zombie horde.

Fair enough.

Here is a simplified model of something that I tried that doesn't work:

[=====] [=====] [H] [P] v@ FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

legend:
[=====] = bridge, [P] = plate, [H] = hatch cover, v = chain, @ = dog, FFFFF = fortress (and dwarves!)

The pressure plate is linked to the bridges and to the hatch cover.
Idea was, war dog spots zombie (on bridge), moves towards them and stands on plate. Zombies fall into lava. At some point dog moves off plate and trap resets.

The hatch cover was supposed to stop dwarves from using this as an exit.
The hatch cover did not stop dwarves from using this as an exit.
The zombies and the dwarves got together.
There were less dwarves.
There were more zombies.
Fun.

[GreatWyrmGold]

...Why wouldn't the dwarves move on the hatch?

[DTF]

Why not build the pressure plates behind the actual traps (i.e. retracting bridges/hatches). This would let the zombie that activates the pressure plate keep walking, while his followers may get caught in the trap. The front zombie(s) then may be trapped by your current technique with a leashed dog.

Code: [Select]

#.#d#
#.#P#
#B#B#
#B#B#
#B#B#
#P#.#
#...#
#####
P: pressure plate, B: bridge, d: dog
The pressure plate on the left is activated by the first zombie that steps on it, dropping his friends behind him into something of your choice.  The right side is basically what you already had in mind. Maybe make sure that the bridge is long enough or the dog's vision is obstructed so he steps off the pressure plate whenever there arent any more enemies on the bridge.


To stop the dwarves: just close any doors to that area? Wouldn't the dog be enough reason for the zombies to path towards their death? I dont quite understand why you would want dwarves to path to that area other than for Fun.