Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: SUCCESSION expansion  (Read 1093 times)

Williham

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
SUCCESSION expansion
« on: June 01, 2012, 04:54:42 pm »

Currently, the SUCCESSION tag on positions is rather limited, and, outside of worldgen, does nothing at all. As soon as the latter gets improved upon; dealing with the former would be interesting:

Currently SUCCESSION supports BY_HEIR and BY_POSITION: (there are also ELECTED and REPLACED_BY:; which are both functionally related).

But as these methods allow for little variety in entities; I propose that a few new SUCCESSION methods be added:

 • BY_LOTTERY: The successor is chosen by lottery at the death of the previous holder. (Might not play nice with nobles that aren't [SITE], as arranging a civ-wide lottery would be impractical at best.)
 • BY_ASSASSINATION: The successor is whomsoever killed the previous holder. I can't think of any actual examples of civilization in real life that have used this as a basis of government, but a few fictional ones spring to mind. An interesting method for making adventurers kings and emperors, and possibly a suitable succession method for goblin law-givers?
 • BY_DUEL: Similar to the above, except that leadership is only legally transferred if the previous holder is killed (or defeated, if some method for yielding in a duel is implemented) in honorable combat, or at least honorably initiated combat. This is something occasionally seen in tribal might-is-right type societies.
 • BY_APPOINTMENT: Similar to BY_POSITION:; except that rather than a concrete position, the closest friend of the holder is appointed.
 • BY_DIVINE_INTERVENTION: The gods themselves meddle in the affairs of mortals, and appoint a devout follower to the throne. Perhaps more relevant for priests than for kings. Of course, in the case of kings, the reason for a new king being needed in the first place might very well be equally divine intervention…

(These are, of course, just a few suggestions off the top of my head, if anyone has any further suggestions, feel free to pitch in.)

Furthermore, BY_HEIR could stand to stand to be expanded:

 • [SUCCESSION:BY_HEIR:OLDEST_CHILD] (Current behavior)
 • [SUCCESSION:BY_HEIR:OLDEST_DAUGHTER_OR_OLDEST_CHILD] (At the time of death, the oldest daughter becomes queen, or in the case of no daughters, the oldest child.)
 • [SUCCESSION:BY_HEIR:OLDEST_DAUGHTER] (At the time of death, the oldest daughter becomes queen, or in the case of no daughters, the line crumbles, and is replaced by a new queen.)
 • [SUCCESSION:BY_HEIR:OLDEST_SON(_OR_OLDEST_CHILD)] (As above, but oldest son.)
 • [SUCCESSION:BY_HEIR:ANY] (Any of the above, selected at random.)

Preferably, this behavior should be possible to randomize when entities are actually created, so that different entities of the same kind could have different practices.

The most flexible syntax would be to allow [SUCCESSION:*] to take a final parameter, ratio; like so:

[SUCCESSION:BY_HEIR:ANY:5]
[SUCCESSION:BY_OLDEST_CHILD:2]
[SUCCESSION:BY_DUEL:2]
[SUCCESSION:BY_ASSASSINATION:1]

Additionally, as Nyan Thousand points out, the APPOINTED_BY token needs to be expanded to be aware of [NUMBER:]; so that if the position charged with appointing the new monarch, for instance, has multiple holders, they act as an electing council.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 05:10:51 am by Williham »
Logged

Carp McDwarfEater

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: SUCCESSION expansion
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2012, 05:34:24 pm »

Maybe the position could also be passed down through an object. For example, whoever possessed the royal crown (which could be treated as an artifact) would be king.
Logged

Williham

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: SUCCESSION expansion
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2012, 05:46:52 pm »

Maybe the position could also be passed down through an object. For example, whoever possessed the royal crown (which could be treated as an artifact) would be king.

Not a bad idea, as such, but it would really kind of be synonymous in most cases with BY_ASSASSINATION; or mean long periods without a king if the artifact is lost.

However, it becomes a much better idea if turned on its head: Royalty have regalia; say a crown, a scepter and an orb, all of which can become lost, or be stolen, giving the adventurer a mighty quest; or fortress-dwelling monarchs more sensible demands.
Logged

Nyan Thousand

  • Bay Watcher
  • It's exactly nyan thousand!
    • View Profile
Re: SUCCESSION expansion
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2012, 10:19:58 pm »

A method that models the Holy Roman Empire would be cool. You have 7 prince-electors (which are chosen by heir or by appointment), and they will be the only ones who can vote on who becomes Emperor. It'd be very interesting, to say the least.
Logged

Williham

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: SUCCESSION expansion
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2012, 05:11:05 am »

A method that models the Holy Roman Empire would be cool. You have 7 prince-electors (which are chosen by heir or by appointment), and they will be the only ones who can vote on who becomes Emperor. It'd be very interesting, to say the least.

Notion added to OP.
Logged

Carp McDwarfEater

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: SUCCESSION expansion
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2012, 07:42:23 am »

Maybe the position could also be passed down through an object. For example, whoever possessed the royal crown (which could be treated as an artifact) would be king.

Not a bad idea, as such, but it would really kind of be synonymous in most cases with BY_ASSASSINATION; or mean long periods without a king if the artifact is lost.

However, it becomes a much better idea if turned on its head: Royalty have regalia; say a crown, a scepter and an orb, all of which can become lost, or be stolen, giving the adventurer a mighty quest;
or fortress-dwelling monarchs more sensible demands.

It wouldn't necessarily have to be the same as the assassination one; you or a bandit could try to steal the artefact and become king or whatever. And if the object is lost, another system would probably go into effect, but then you could seek out the lost artefact and claim to be the new ruler.
Logged

Mr. Palau

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: SUCCESSION expansion
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2012, 10:17:33 am »

We should also have succesion by senority, or more appropriatly http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnatic_seniority. Here is an example.
We have Generation Zero (G0, all other generations will have numbers to save time aswell ex. G1, G2, G3). We have King1 and Queen1. They have sons S1, S2, and S3 (all G1). King1 dies. Son1 gets the throne, as he is oldest. He has 2 sons during his riegn. G2S1Son1 (generation 1, son 1, of son 1)  and G2S2Son1 (generation 1, son 2, of son 1). Then S1 dies. S2 takes over. S2 had 1 son before, but since that son was not born during his father's riegn he can not inherit the throne. While reigning S2 has one son, G2S1Son2. S2 dies. S3 takes over, has no sons duirng his reign, and dies. Only then does G2S1Son1 take over the throne.

You can check the wiki for more info and historical examples.
Logged
you can't just go up to people and get laid.