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[GiglameshDespair]

Quick interest check for a game (somewhat in the the tone of VtM) in which the players are fresh turned monsters without actually knowing what kind of monsters they are, and have to try and survive whilst figuring out how to manage their monstrous instincts and abilities. Vast majority of game would be non-combat, with the monstrous instincts taking over for combat in the majority of cases. Would be quite narrative heavy.

Got it pretty much fleshed out, just want to see if there'd be much interest beforehand?

Are they all the same kind of monster?
Do they have absolutely zero knowledge whatsoever, or will there be reasonable hints "You feel stronger than when you were human", etc?

[kj1225]

Sounds interesting.

[AoshimaMichio]

Quick interest check for a game (somewhat in the the tone of VtM) in which the players are fresh turned monsters without actually knowing what kind of monsters they are, and have to try and survive whilst figuring out how to manage their monstrous instincts and abilities. Vast majority of game would be non-combat, with the monstrous instincts taking over for combat in the majority of cases. Would be quite narrative heavy.

Got it pretty much fleshed out, just want to see if there'd be much interest beforehand?

By monsters do you mean truly inhuman beings or something like shapeshifting humans? Anyway, sounds interesting.

[sjm9876]

Are they all the same kind of monster?
Do they have absolutely zero knowledge whatsoever, or will there be reasonable hints "You feel stronger than when you were human", etc?

Nope, all different most likely. They'll start with no knowledge, but some things will reveal themselves fairly fast - mostly any changes to strength and speed and the like. One of the most likely times to get hints about powers will be when you lose control and start acting on instinct. Because who doesn't love temptation

By monsters do you mean truly inhuman beings or something like shapeshifting humans? Anyway, sounds interesting.

Could be either. The players are effectively the side of the monsters that are still human, though whether that side is really any pleasanter than the monstrous side is up to the player. Ability-wise, they vary substantially - the players do get some say in the matter, in the way of being able to effectively give me a few motifs as inspiration for their abilities, and being able to tell me roughly what kind of character you don't want to play - so if one of the above options specifically doesn't appeal, you can veto it.

[Andres]

Quick interest check for a game (somewhat in the the tone of VtM) in which the players are fresh turned monsters without actually knowing what kind of monsters they are, and have to try and survive whilst figuring out how to manage their monstrous instincts and abilities. Vast majority of game would be non-combat, with the monstrous instincts taking over for combat in the majority of cases. Would be quite narrative heavy.

Got it pretty much fleshed out, just want to see if there'd be much interest beforehand?

Sounds like it'll get boring fast. The initial mystery won't last and it it does, it means it's dragging on. After that, it'll just be a generic noble monster story.


Any way to make a crusade game work? I don't mean a historic crusade game (there's no way to salvage that), I mean one set in a fantasy world. How do you get a mass army joining in an offensive campaign while keeping them the good guys?

[GiglameshDespair]

Make them fight against evil is the obvious answer.

Against an evil race like orcs, against a land and people corrupted by darkness, against a necromancer lord and his undead hordes.

[Fniff]

Eesh... Having the good guys be crusaders even in a fantasy context is iffy to begin with. And making the opposite side evil is just chock-a-block with unfortunate implications.
The only way I could see it not being uncomfortable would be to distance them from the actual crusaders while having the background of a massive crusade. That way you have your cake and eat it.

As for ideas in that direction... Perhaps have them be deserters trying to cross hundreds of miles of desert to return home, or religious pilgrims seeking absolution for their sins while trying to avoid being killed in the crossfire. Think outside the box.

[IronyOwl]

Sounds like it'll get boring fast. The initial mystery won't last and it it does, it means it's dragging on. After that, it'll just be a generic noble monster story.

I'm not quite this pessimistic, but I agree that it could have pacing/premise issues. Plus the usual issue of people either figuring everything out pretty fast ("Sunlight negatively affects me in some way, I'm a vampire!") or having really incoherent monsters ("Weak to water, frost breath, teleport between shadows, and super endurance. Uhhhh...?")

Any way to make a crusade game work? I don't mean a historic crusade game (there's no way to salvage that), I mean one set in a fantasy world. How do you get a mass army joining in an offensive campaign while keeping them the good guys?

Depends on your thresholds for "good guys." A relatively safe assumption is that the bad guys are doing something that directly and severely impacts the good guys; you can try for the usual "they're slavers!" or "they have sex in ways we don't like!" type angles, but you tend to get into weird cost:benefit analyses and sovereignty issues pretty quick. Rotting the soil beneath the good guys' feet or opening the gates to oblivion basically cheats by effectively making the good guys' behavior in self defense/preservation, meaning all that sieging of cities and pillaging of crops and so on is totally something they have no choice but to do.

If you don't want to go quite so blatant, you can also try the long haul for cost:benefit issues, basically taking the "let's liberate them from their evil selves!" approach on a more rationally defensible line. If your kingdom/empire/city state/clan is awesome and wealthy and happy and content and do everything right, while the enemy is really just terrible at everything, not just in a moral sense but in legitimate efficiency issues, you can make a decent argument that murdering the shit out of them and then ruling them with an iron fist is literally better in the long run than just letting them mind their own business. You run into issues almost immediately, of course, but keeping the thing's head above water is really all you can hope for if you're trying to be more realistic than "the world will end if we don't."

Final note: Mind the methods. "An offensive campaign" can mean anything from lightning strikes against forges so the enemy lacks the weapons to hurt you, to a grueling scorched earth extermination campaign wherein being buried alive is one of the nicer fates to be had. What the good guys do when they win, what they're willing to do to win, and what they consider winning to mean can go a long way towards redeeming an iffy cause or damning a good-looking one.

Eesh... Having the good guys be crusaders even in a fantasy context is iffy to begin with. And making the opposite side evil is just chock-a-block with unfortunate implications.
The only way I could see it not being uncomfortable would be to distance them from the actual crusaders while having the background of a massive crusade. That way you have your cake and eat it.

As for ideas in that direction... Perhaps have them be deserters trying to cross hundreds of miles of desert to return home, or religious pilgrims seeking absolution for their sins while trying to avoid being killed in the crossfire. Think outside the box.

Pfff, everything has unfortunate implications. The bigger issue for me is believability/interest; cardboard cutout evil goons tend to be way less interesting than nuanced individuals who happen to consider flaying prisoners to be a legitimate hobby.

[Andres]

Tiny>Small>Medium>Large>Gargantuan>Colossal

[Rolepgeek]

More in interesting way to do it is probably to make it so they aren't necessarily the good guy, they're just the less bad guys, or the guys who've hired you, or your home country or so on.

[ATHATH]

More in interesting way to do it is probably to make it so they aren't necessarily the good guy, they're just the less bad guys, or the guys who've hired you, or your home country or so on.

+1

Have you considered just creating two fantasy religions and having one of them go on a crusade for the standard reasons?

[Culise]

Besides, if you want crusaders, they don't have to be the "Sack of Jerusalem" crusaders.  They could be noble crusaders that actually live up to the ideals behind the Crusade: serve as a defensive bulwark for an Empire (whichever capital-E Empire or other major polity that happens to be in a fantasy realm) beleaguered by implacable external foes and permit the resumption of pilgrimages to their holiest lands (not much about brigandage and sacks in this mission statement, which just goes to say something about mission statements).  For instance, since we're talking Crusades, the 1187 siege of Jerusalem that drove that titular crusader state to Acre ended in a peaceful agreement where not only were the nobles permitted to leave without being slaughtered, and not only was the city not sacked, but many of those who would ordinarily been enslaved under the practice of the day were immediately manumitted and, after three days, the Christians permitted to resume their pilgrimages to their holy places, which were left intact and unharmed.  The irony of the crusaders' greatest enemy being presented as the ideal for what should have been their behaviour is indeed part of the reason I bring it up as an example. 

[AoshimaMichio]

Sounds like it'll get boring fast. The initial mystery won't last and it it does, it means it's dragging on. After that, it'll just be a generic noble monster story.

I'm not quite this pessimistic, but I agree that it could have pacing/premise issues. Plus the usual issue of people either figuring everything out pretty fast ("Sunlight negatively affects me in some way, I'm a vampire!") or having really incoherent monsters ("Weak to water, frost breath, teleport between shadows, and super endurance. Uhhhh...?")

Actually I think latter type would be more interesting since you are not some stereotypical monster that can be instantly figured out, but something new entirely. A mismatch of strengths and weaknesses, especially if things are not what they initially look like. Like sunlight actually has negative effects because you haven't farted in sun's direction or something. Basically weaknesses and/or strengths are merely symptoms of some deeper problem.

[sjm9876]

Sounds like it'll get boring fast. The initial mystery won't last and it it does, it means it's dragging on. After that, it'll just be a generic noble monster story.

I'm not quite this pessimistic, but I agree that it could have pacing/premise issues. Plus the usual issue of people either figuring everything out pretty fast ("Sunlight negatively affects me in some way, I'm a vampire!") or having really incoherent monsters ("Weak to water, frost breath, teleport between shadows, and super endurance. Uhhhh...?")

The plan is to head somewhere in between. Things should be relatively coherent, though not already existent (though coherent prevents already existent in many cases ).

As for maintaining interest, the players aren't exactly being dropped in a testing room to figure out their abilities. Hopefully, there should be enough else happening elsewhere to keep interest. Still, only really one way to find out

[FallacyofUrist]

Kay, I'm interested.

So... what's the setting? Because if Google exists...

"Okay Google: weak to water, frost breath, teleportation between shadows, and super endurance."