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[ggamer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ-4gnNz0vc

Opinions?

I figured that since most of the youtube comments were "OMG rasist fukin hiks" and "Fukin hippe gawhdless cammie" I figured this would be a good place to stimulate discussion.

[Flying Dice]

I stopped caring about what he had to say the moment he pulled out the "Hurr durr global warming isn't real because cold weather" crap.

[penguinofhonor]

1:11 in. I'm pretty sure he's hitting one incorrect, incomplete, or misrepresented fact every ten seconds.

[Flying Dice]

It's like a 'best of' reel for misinformation, honestly.

[ggamer]

:I

So, not too good?

[penguinofhonor]

I'll elaborate a bit since I assume we want real discussion here instead of a bunch of liberals coming in and dismissing the video...

Wait. "The free market is the only force in human history to uplift the poor, establish the middle class, and create rising prosperity."

I'm sorry. I can't legitimately discuss this because this isn't something that wants to create legitimate discussion. This is not something that is part of a legitimate discussion.

[Leafsnail]

This is literally propaganda.  No facts or evidence, just ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATIONS BAD, FREE MARKET GOOD for almost 5 minutes.  There is nothing to discuss, other than maybe who exactly funds "Free Market America" (my bet is on oil companies).

[ggamer]

1:11 in. I'm pretty sure he's hitting one incorrect, incomplete, or misrepresented fact every ten seconds.

-Cut down on oil, make it more expensive and make consumers feel guilty about using a very abundant energy source (oil)
  -Also, make oil more expensive to make expensive alternate energies look cheap.

-Install obstructive bureaucrats to outlaw en... huh? I... I don't think that's a thing.

-Teach one generation of Americans that fossil fuels will cause an ice age. Then tell the next that it will cause global warming. Then when it gets colder, rename global warming global climate change.
  -I think this is more to outline hypocrisy, not really disprove global warming/climate change.

That's the video up to 1:11

This is literally propaganda.  No facts or evidence, just ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATIONS BAD, FREE MARKET GOOD for almost 5 minutes.  There is nothing to discuss, other than maybe who exactly funds "Free Market America" (my bet is on oil companies).

It isn't really anti-environmental regulations. Even in the description of the video, it is clearly stated that  The point is that extremism has no place in environmental regulations, and that the price of keeping the world clean shouldn't be the complete wrecking of the economy.

[Mr. Palau]

"The free market is the only force in human history to uplift the poor, establish the middle class, and create rising prosperity."

I'm sorry. I can't legitimately discuss this because this isn't something that wants to create legitimate discussion. This is not something that is part of a legitimate discussion.

Well if you replace only with best...

Also I thought this video would have been very convincing where it not for the fact that I have a strong pre-established ideaology.It is very appealing on a emotional level, fits in with a pre-established narative, it tries to connect obama with the destruction of things we know are good, says he clashes with fundemental values, effectively utilizes ridiculous situations such as those owls, has a good amount of Xenophobia, towards the Chinese and the Europeans, the black and white gives it a nice dark mood, filled with dark images and of course negative words. Oh and that ending, saying Obama is perverting the good nature of Americans to his radical environmentalist agenda, that just ties the entire ad up in a real nice way.

Whoever funded this certaintly got their monies worth.

[Leafsnail]

It's very well made, I'll give it that.  It goes over appeals to "freedom", the American dream, strawmen, horribly mischaracterised anecdotes and good ol' xenophobia.  Maybe if you're too distracted by all those emotional appeals you won't notice that it's produced literally no evidence to support its position.

-Teach one generation of Americans that fossil fuels will cause an ice age. Then tell the next that it will cause global warming. Then when it gets colder, rename global warming global climate change.
  -I think this is more to outline hypocrisy, not really disprove global warming/climate change.

It is a very stupid strawman.  "Global cooling" never really gained too much of a scientific consensus (mainly because it was not supported by evidence).  And in any case it's irrelevant to the ten tonne gorilla that is the body of evidence supporting man made climate change.

It isn't really anti-environmental regulations. Even in the description of the video, it is clearly stated that  The point is that extremism has no place in environmental regulations, and that the price of keeping the world clean shouldn't be the complete wrecking of the economy.

It is clearly stating that the current regulations (which are nowhere near enough to prevent catastrophic climate change) are too much and will cause America to fail.  It cites perfectly reasonable regulations (carbon credits/ taxes to make fossils fuels costs reflect their actual cost, regulations to prevent logging from destroying valuable public land) as evil by mischaracterising them and then creates a whole bunch of bizarre underexplained strawmen (it's almost impossible for farmers to farm, apparently).  The clear subtext is "we don't need any environmental regulations, the FREE MARKET will take care of it all".  At least there's certainly no part of the video where he acknowledges that some regulations are needed (you'd need bureaucrats to actually enforce any kind of legislation so I'm pretty sure they're saying all regulations are bad).

[ggamer]

yeeeeeahhh. This was just... kind of a bad Idea. It's not really a thought provoking vid as much as it is a statement of conservative beliefs, and the thread is just bound to become flame bait.

I won't lock the thread, just so that if anyone has anything that could spark discussion they could say it. But I think it would be best to just let this thread die.

Leafsnail, you make a good point. However, I am far too tired to do the hours worth of research it would take to come up with an argument, and would rather not pull something out of my ass.

[Mr. Palau]

It's very well made, I'll give it that.  It goes over appeals to "freedom", the American dream, strawmen, horribly mischaracterised anecdotes and good ol' xenophobia.  Maybe if you're too distracted by all those emotional appeals you won't notice that it's produced literally no evidence to support its position.

See, but howmany Americans have a strong enough ideaology/knowledgable enough on climate change to resist the emotional appeal? If you don't know he is lying out of his ass, than it is very appealing. Thats who this ad was aimed at anyway, it wasn't meant to convince liberlas or affrim conservative beliefs, (who would be the only people with a strong enough ideaology to protect themselves from this ad, and then there are the climate scientists who know this is bull because it is their job) it was meant to sway middle of the road Americans. I think if you look at it from their perspective, it was a very convincing ad.

[penguinofhonor]

-Cut down on oil, make it more expensive and make consumers feel guilty about using a very abundant energy source (oil)
  -Also, make oil more expensive to make expensive alternate energies look cheap.

I'm just saying, this bit sounded like he was being paid by the oil industry to say it. The oil industry that shares the responsibility for rising oil prices, as well as having the lion's share of the responsibility for shutting down alternative energy sources that aren't always expensive and cumbersome compared to oil (unless you ask an oil industry lobbyist).

-Teach one generation of Americans that fossil fuels will cause an ice age. Then tell the next that it will cause global warming. Then when it gets colder, rename global warming global climate change.
  -I think this is more to outline hypocrisy, not really disprove global warming/climate change.

No, it's to outline how horrible it is that people follow science, which evolves and changes over time. I'll admit that climate science is probably as commercialized as nutrition science, but "it changes" is probably the worst choice of things to use against it. Although it is the best choice if you want to appeal to a common incorrect/uninformed view of science.

[blackmagechill]

I haven't watched the video because of bandwidth resrictions, but it sounds like the videos from hate week in 1984. The black and white, the nonsensical, out of nowhere statements, and the super emotional appeal (which was strong enough to send a whole bunch of office workers into a psychotic rage). Maybe it's just the way it was described by you guys though.

[Mr. Palau]

I haven't watched the video because of bandwidth resrictions, but it sounds like the videos from hate week in 1984. The black and white, the nonsensical, out of nowhere statements, and the super emotional appeal (which was strong enough to send a whole bunch of office workers into a psychotic rage). Maybe it's just the way it was described by you guys though.

No the emotional appeal isn't like hate week, it is more a slow and steady emotional appeal. There is nice slow, soothing music. It is very clam and negative, in a very strange way. How to describe it... it's more like he is being a calm traitor. Like someone is slowely insulting you, with a very calm voice and nice music.