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[Snergler]

A thought hit me. Try using a different type of container.

Sometimes bins are screwy.

Though the part about not preserving the bin resulting in its contents disappear does make some sense as well.

but bins are generally the only kind of container used for weapons and armor right? what kind could i use, minecart?, maybe a custom tool... in that case is the token to make a tool a container [CONTAINER_CAPACITY] or does it need a special [TOOL_USE:HEAVY_OBJECT_HAULING] like a wheelbarrow?, or just use a wheelbarrow perhaps... 

[BlackFlyme]

I don't think you need to worry about the tool use token. Just be sure that whatever it is you use has a [CONTAINER_CAPACITY] large enough to hold weapons. Otherwise the reaction may not work properly.

[Snergler]

I don't think you need to worry about the tool use token. Just be sure that whatever it is you use has a [CONTAINER_CAPACITY] large enough to hold weapons. Otherwise the reaction may not work properly.

thanks, ... so I replaced the bin with a wheelbarrow and kept the [PRESERVE_REAGENT] token, all reactions run smooth with no cancelation an no error log.

EDIT:i should say that the weapon still remains in the wheelbarrow, just like it did with the bin

i then remove [PRESERVE_REAGENT] and... again no wheelbarrow, no weapon.
so you were right, the bin seems to have been causing the cancelation, but i feel that my theory that removing [PRESERVE_REAGENT] from the container reagent causes whats inside to be consumed with it... is pretty much academic now  

[Zarathustra30]

What if you make the container out of a substance that has [HEATDAM_POINT] below room temperature? I think contents are preserved in that case, because I've had wheelbarrows burn up when hauling minecarts full of magma.

Also, if you remove the [SKILL] tokens from the second and third reactions, they will take place near instantaneously. That is, if you don't care about the quality of the final product. I apparently don't work better during the day.

[Snergler]

What if you make the container out of a substance that has [HEATDAM_POINT] below room temperature? I think contents are preserved in that case, because I've had wheelbarrows burn up when hauling minecarts full of magma.

Also, if you remove the [SKILL] tokens from the second and third reactions, they will take place near instantaneously.

ha ha, i was just working on using a material along those lines for the container, a low boiling point would not work because it would not survive through two reactions, but will a [HEATDAM_POINT] gradually destroy it? i have not played with that tag before. obviously you'd keep ignition point off or far higher then heatdam, but what does heatdam do? just make it wear out fast?
will the creator get sad if his masterpieces are destroyed this way?

EDIT:unfortunatly dwarfs get sad about their masterwork container being lost this way

[Dirst]

EDIT:unfortunatly dwarfs get sad about their masterwork container being lost this way

The timing might be tricky, but if the container-creating reaction doesn't have a skill then it won't have a quality level and therefore can't be a masterwork.  Problem will be making it survive the longer, skilled reaction later in the process.

Or maybe have one reaction put the improved weapon in a real container and the next consume the temporary container?  Would that prevent losing the weapon?

[Zarathustra30]

That would defeat the point of having a temporary container in the first place.

[Snergler]

EDIT:unfortunatly dwarfs get sad about their masterwork container being lost this way

The timing might be tricky, but if the container-creating reaction doesn't have a skill then it won't have a quality level and therefore can't be a masterwork.  Problem will be making it survive the longer, skilled reaction later in the process.

Or maybe have one reaction put the improved weapon in a real container and the next consume the temporary container?  Would that prevent losing the weapon?

thanks, i did not know that, so removing the skill token from the container producing reaction will always make a base quality container.
if thats so then it solves the issue.

does the temperature at which the material starts taking heatdam affect the rate of damage? the temp in my fort seems to be 10015
the material i used is an custom inorganic stone template with [HEATDAM_POINT:10001], and it took 5 days for a container to wear out of exsistance, is there a way to control the rate they are destroyed, like lower the  heatdam point the faster the damage rate? 5 days is kind of a long time to have these containers sitting around, it could start messing with qued jobs, without proper stockpile setups.
EDIT:i should have mentioned it before [SPEC_HEAT:1] was the setting, but i don't know how that number works. does a lower specheat mean it heats up faster, or slower?
i also tried a boiling point at 10015, but they boil away as soon as their created, at 10016 they never seem to boil away.
temp is an unstable and inconsistent thing to play with it seems

[BlackFlyme]

I don't actually know much about how heat damage works. I suppose you could try moving the damage point lower, to see if difference between temperatures would speed it up. Or possibly changing the unit's SPEC_HEAT, so that it would heat up much quicker.

[Snergler]

I don't actually know much about how heat damage works. I suppose you could try moving the damage point lower, to see if difference between temperatures would speed it up. Or possibly changing the unit's SPEC_HEAT, so that it would heat up much quicker.

EDIT:there is a link between heatdam point and the damage rate, this material lasted just long enough to complete both the automatic reactions (the first  reactions does not have [SKILL] so it is almost instant... like Dirst said), the minecart i used as a container disappeared a moment later... so i call it ...
CARTINITE

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[INORGANIC:CARTINITE]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STONE_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:cartinite]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:melted cartinite]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling cartinite]
        [TILE:42][ITEM_SYMBOL:7]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:2:2:1][BASIC_COLOR:2:1][BUILD_COLOR:2:10:0]
        [STATE_COLOR:ALL:EMERALD]
[IS_STONE]
[SPEC_HEAT:1]
[HEATDAM_POINT:9970]

EDIT:i still am not sure what exactly the low spec heat value does, but heatdam point values from 1 to 5000 cause the material to disappear instantly, 9950 lasted through one reaction, but not the second
EDIT:after the reactions completed, the minecart with the weapon inside it, still inside the workshop decomploded, then the weapon was no longer in the workshop, but on the ground
EDIT: ...the final form of my reactions...
duh, i need the weapon to have a quality so i replaced the [skill] token for the second reaction

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[REACTION:ENCRUST_METAL_WEAPON]
[NAME:encrust a metal weapon]
[BUILDING:JEWELERS2:NONE]
        [PRODUCT:100:1:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_MINECART:INORGANIC:CARTINITE]

[REACTION:ENCRUST_METAL_WEAPON_PART_2]
[NAME:encrust a metal weapon part two]
[BUILDING:JEWELERS2:NONE]
[REAGENT:weapon:1:WEAPON:NONE:METAL:NONE][NOT_IMPROVED]
[REAGENT:cart:1:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_MINECART:INORGANIC:CARTINITE][EMPTY][PRESERVE_REAGENT]
        [PRODUCT:100:1:GET_ITEM_DATA_FROM_REAGENT:weapon:NONE][PRODUCT_TO_CONTAINER:cart]
[SKILL:ENCRUSTGEM]
[AUTOMATIC]

[REACTION:ENCRUST_METAL_WEAPON_PART_3]
[NAME:encrust a metal weapon part three]
[BUILDING:JEWELERS2:NONE]
[REAGENT:weapon:1:WEAPON:NONE:METAL:NONE][NOT_IMPROVED][PRESERVE_REAGENT]
[REAGENT:weaponcart:1:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_MINECART:INORGANIC:CARTINITE][CONTAINS:weapon][PRESERVE_REAGENT]
[REAGENT:smallgem:1:SMALLGEM:NONE:NONE:NONE]
[IMPROVEMENT:100:weapon:COVERED:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:smallgem:NONE]
[SKILL:ENCRUSTGEM]
[AUTOMATIC]

so to answer my original question, i guess it is possible.... but at what price

[Dirst]

so to answer my original question, i guess it is possible.... but at what price

And I thought implementing the raws-only method of spawning a creature was convoluted.  I salute your persistence and ‼SCIENCE‼ skills.

[Snergler]

so to answer my original question, i guess it is possible.... but at what price

And I thought implementing the raws-only method of spawning a creature was convoluted.  I salute your persistence and ‼SCIENCE‼ skills.

yea, i used to think cheese bins were weird, but know i know that is just the tip of the weirdberg
thanks to you and blackflame and urist and Zarathustra30 for the collaboration, it was a learning experience.
now it got me all interested in playing with temperature, heatdam point, and spec heat values.
i've learned that by using [SPEC_HEAT:1] and [MAT_FIXED_TEMP:10015](normal underground temp) then lowering the [HEATDAM_POINT] below [MAT_FIXED_TEMP] in increments, the material wears out faster the larger the difference between the two. for every 10 degrees lower, the material wears out about 5 seconds faster, but only within a certain range.
once you hit larger differences, say 100 degrees the effect is accelerated, and about 1000 degrees, materials disintegrate instantly. so the closer to your  [MAT_FIXED_TEMP] the more accurate you can be, i assume that   [COLDDAM_POINT] would behave the same, but you just raise the value above the   [MAT_FIXED_TEMP] AFAIK 

[Urist McCoder]

Wait there's a raw only way to spawn a creature, please share.

[BlackFlyme]

Yea, you can create a unit through the raws, but to quote the first person I have ever seen explain it, it is "hoops as fuck".

You have a reaction that produces a material that instantly explodes into a gas. This material carries a syndrome that temporarily transforms the unit running the reaction into a creature that I will dub the "progenitor".

This progenitor has an unusual body type; one of its body parts is designed to fall off immediately. The progenitor also has the ability to use an interaction that resurrects the severed part and transforms it into another creature, which I will refer to as the progenitor's "spawn". Then the progenitor has its transformation syndrome wear off, returning it to its normal state.

I think there may be another way, but I can't remember at the moment.

[smakemupagus]

Indeed, "hoops as fuck" is the appropriate search term to easily find the thread:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=118632.msg3755794#msg3755794