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Author Topic: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD  (Read 697347 times)

Mr Crabman

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5130 on: December 19, 2021, 09:21:03 am »
Quote from: voliol on December 19, 2021, 08:41:59 am
Quote from: Mr_Crabman on December 19, 2021, 08:02:38 am
How are summoned units supposed to behave? Whenever a creature is summoned by another in the arena, they seem to both fight each other, which isn't really what I want to happen (I want the summoned creature to be a minion of the summoner).

That is the purpose of IE_MAKE_PET_IF_POSSIBLE. Though iirc it doesn't work in the arena if the summoner is "independent" instead of on a set team.

Thank you! That's solved the problem nicely.
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Madde

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5131 on: December 22, 2021, 03:22:37 pm »
Is the POP_RATIO caste token taken into consideration for sieger/invader army composition? I know that wildlife spawns ignore it and civilized creatures respect it during world-gen, but invader forces can also be drawn from a pool of non-historical figures IIRC, and I don't know how that interacts with the aforementioned token. I want some beefier creature castes to be rare because otherwise they will just steamroll the player's fort early game.
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Mr Crabman

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5132 on: December 24, 2021, 07:29:12 am »
Often I see in creatures, right after [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_MATERIALS], there will be [REMOVE_MATERIAL:HAIR] for example (usually after birds or reptiles).

But I wonder, what is the reason for this? I could understand if some of the other BODY_DETAIL_PLAN's that came after that automatically applied hair (like how VERTEBRATE_TISSUE_LAYERS applies the HEART and BRAIN tissues automatically), but they don't, so I see no way the hair would be getting added to the creature anyway, whether or not you remove LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:HAIR.

So why is that done? Is there some benefit to removing local creature materials (and tissues) that don't get used or applied anywhere? Does it tie in to why FEATHER (or indeed, BLOOD and PUS) isn't already included in STANDARD_MATERIALS and STANDARD_TISSUES?

My only guess is that even unused materials still have to be stored on the creature and that might be bad for data storage purposes (though I wonder if it couldn't just be removed from them by the raw loader?), but that wouldn't explain why BLOOD (which as far as I can see is used in every creature with STANDARD_MATERIALS) isn't included in STANDARD_MATERIALS.
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Madde

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5133 on: December 24, 2021, 01:11:45 pm »
I can see two reasons for that. On one hand, it ensures these materials don't show up as material preferences for civilized creatures, and thus you don't get mandates for impossible items (though there are still some that don't make sense IIRC). Similarly, it is also possible that these unused materials could pop up as caravan goods or other things if they weren't removed. For example, crocodiles also have their skin and leather materials removed because they have scales, and maybe removing those two lines would mean that a civ with access to the animal could bring crocodile leather items in trade, even though you cannot acquire such a thing in regular play. However, I never tested this so it could be just due to material preferences.

It is also notable that butchering yields (or the lack of them) aren't considered at all during world-gen, which is why you can buy and request vermin meat and leather from caravans.
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nockermensch

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5134 on: January 03, 2022, 05:18:05 pm »
I want to add castes to humans so that, for example, 1 in 100 humans have horns, or cloven hooves instead feet, or wings, etc. So I started with the horns:

My first idea was to add the castes [HORNED_FEMALE] and [HORNED_MALE] and add inside them a [BODY:2HEAD_HORN] tag, and after that, an attack that uses the horn.

This "works" in the sense that these horned humans have two horns and want to attack with them on the object testing arena, but it also produces the following error:

Quote
*** Error(s) finalizing the creature HUMAN
HUMAN:HORNED_FEMALE:right horn: No tissue thickness
HUMAN:HORNED_FEMALE:left horn: No tissue thickness
HUMAN:HORNED_MALE:right horn: No tissue thickness
HUMAN:HORNED_MALE:left horn: No tissue thickness

I tried to fix this by adding    [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:HORN:HORN_TEMPLATE] and [USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:HORN:HORN_TEMPLATE] on the human creature, both before and inside the castes, but no luck so far. So how can I do this?

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Vattic

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5135 on: January 03, 2022, 08:06:46 pm »
So I've just made human males horned to show how it's done.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

From what I understand you need to define the bodies before the tissues. In the above I replaced the one unified [BODY:...] with one per caste, then defined the materials and tissues below, and changed the original [CASTE:...) tokens to [SELECT_CASTE:...] as I've already defined them earlier.
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nockermensch

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5136 on: January 03, 2022, 08:58:08 pm »
Thanks! I had figured it studying the WILD HUNT creature (from MW)

This is how my humans are right now:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The trick is to put all material / tissue definitions after the castes, and to have the [BODY] tag on the castes. You can streamline the process with [SELECT_CASTE][SELECT_ADDITIONAL_CASTE] tags.
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MaxTheFox

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5137 on: January 24, 2022, 06:25:19 am »
What's a good way to balance an "aggressive, savage menace" civ so it neither gets crushed nor conquers the world? My beastmen seem to go into either of the two extremes, sometimes between two tests with the same raws.
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Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless. What will you do on the day of reckoning, when disaster comes from afar?

Quaksna

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5138 on: January 24, 2022, 10:41:22 am »
You can make low site pop cap to force them to "rush" founding new sites. That's about the extent of my knowledge on the subject  :D But I'd also like to know if it's possible to adjust these things, seconding Max here.

Though what is also worth noting is that all the different parameters in both the basic and advanced world generation can give very different results, so it's rather difficult to keep this sort of stuff balanced.
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MaxTheFox

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5139 on: January 25, 2022, 07:51:48 am »
Quote from: Quaksna on January 24, 2022, 10:41:22 am
You can make low site pop cap to force them to "rush" founding new sites. That's about the extent of my knowledge on the subject  :D But I'd also like to know if it's possible to adjust these things, seconding Max here.

Though what is also worth noting is that all the different parameters in both the basic and advanced world generation can give very different results, so it's rather difficult to keep this sort of stuff balanced.
Understood! Also is there a way to make a civ's hamlets not upgrade to towns? I want them to have that "primitive village" feel.
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Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless. What will you do on the day of reckoning, when disaster comes from afar?

Quaksna

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5140 on: January 25, 2022, 08:26:50 am »
Not sure about directly controlling town upgrading, but you can definitely remove keeps and fortifications - the token [BUILDS_OUTDOOR_FORTIFICATIONS] is responsible for castles and fortifying mead halls. So you can make towns to be a bit fancier hamlets, in essence. I mean just as it is those two are very similar, the one being a direct upgrade of the other. but if you're going to the most primitive feel you can get, I would definitely remove this token. I remember doing a tribal civilization with human sites like this before, and it working quite well, it makes the sites more plain.
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TomiTapio

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5141 on: January 29, 2022, 11:39:50 am »
Quote from: MaxTheFox on January 24, 2022, 06:25:19 am
What's a good way to balance an "aggressive, savage menace" civ so it neither gets crushed nor conquers the world?
My beastmen seem to go into either of the two extremes, sometimes between two tests with the same raws.

I don't know the exact tuning details, but my (and Deon's) OldGenesis civs have really good balance,
no-one conquers the world. Some worlds are very low on centaurs or beastmen or illithid empire or serpentfolk.
Goblins and groblins are consistent. Try copying my groblin (cruder, more primitive vanilla goblin) civ tuning.
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==OldGenesis mod== by Deon & TomiTapio. Five wood classes, four leather classes. Nine enemy civs. So much fine-tuning.
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Dubya

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5142 on: February 05, 2022, 03:34:38 pm »
How do I get a creature to leave no corpse? I don't want to use [NIGHT_CREATURE_HUNTER] because it spams smoke. I've tried [ITEMCORPSE:LIQUID_MISC:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:BLOOD] and several variations of that but they always leave a corpse.

Also, why the **** does google not search bay12? The search function on this forum is extremely lacking and it being excluded from google results is super frustrating.
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Mobbstar

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5143 on: February 05, 2022, 05:35:28 pm »
Quote from: Dubya on February 05, 2022, 03:34:38 pm
How do I get a creature to leave no corpse? I don't want to use [NIGHT_CREATURE_HUNTER] because it spams smoke. I've tried [ITEMCORPSE:LIQUID_MISC:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:BLOOD] and several variations of that but they always leave a corpse.

Also, why the **** does google not search bay12? The search function on this forum is extremely lacking and it being excluded from google results is super frustrating.

Item types require a subtype.  If no subtype exists, use NO_SUBTYPE.  For example, LIQUID_MISC:NO_SUBTYPE:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:BLOOD

Personally, I consider Bay12forums' search function far better than some other forums out there.  I can seemingly use site:www.bay12forums.com in Google without issue.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5144 on: February 05, 2022, 06:41:48 pm »
The new night creature nightmare tag ( [NIGHT_CREATURE_NIGHTMARE] ) for 47.xx seems to do it, after a period of time it'll dissapate like the necromancer summon creatures that can't be pernament even if they're summoned in the abstract of the interaction tokens that overrides and tells them to fade like that.

Worth a try, though i've not seen it myself I will say.
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