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Author Topic: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD  (Read 682695 times)

9joseph9

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5010 on: June 11, 2021, 05:27:46 am »

If I am not mistaken the way civs of [CAVE_DETAILED] site type work is that sites in mountains become fortresses, and in other biomes hillocks, except for the Mountainhome (the very first site spawned with the civ), which is a fortress regardless of biome.

I once had a civ like this, which started in a swamp, but was forbidden to settle in mountains. The result was that there was only the one initial fortress in the swamp, and from then on the civ was creating just hillocks.

Now that was a while back so I don't know if new versions would do the same results, also recently new sites like forts and monasteries were added so those will probably generate always alongside the normal ones, don't know.

You can try making a mountain biome civ only, but I can't guarantee the outcome. I would wait for someone more knowledgeable.

Yeah, I tried restricting the civ to mountains only, but that just resulted in the all the dwarf civs never growing past their single starter fortress. I also tried increasing the starting and max site populations just in case mountain hall generation was somehow tied to the civ's population size, but either that wasn't it or I underestimated the size the population actually needed to be.

Thanks for responding though.
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Eric Blank

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5011 on: June 11, 2021, 05:05:12 pm »

I don't think what you want is realistically possible, for exactly the result you're describing. You can make them reliably never leave their starting site, but they have to be allowed to settle other biomes and build hillock, which will encourage new fortresses, and tunnels built between fortresses will spawn mountainhomes.
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9joseph9

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5012 on: June 11, 2021, 05:53:49 pm »

That's what I was afraid of. Oh well, thanks for the help.
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Asin

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5013 on: June 17, 2021, 07:25:15 pm »

How do you make it so a creature of a different caste has different skin and hair tones? I'm making the Orc from Dragon Quest and I want to make Orc Kings as a separate caste of the Orc.

Atkana

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5014 on: June 18, 2021, 01:52:29 am »

How do you make it so a creature of a different caste has different skin and hair tones? I'm making the Orc from Dragon Quest and I want to make Orc Kings as a separate caste of the Orc.
All the appearance modifiers are caste-level, so you just define the hair and skin colours in their castes (either during the caste declaration, or later by selecting the particular caste). If I remember correctly, it's important to maintain the same order of declarations (so if the hair is first for one caste, it should be first for the others), the same number of declarations (so don't skip say, the skin modifiers, for one caste), and the same number of modifiers (if you need to fill things out, it's perfectly fine to repeat the same colours multiple times) - otherwise things can get crashy when it comes to genetics (I think).

ChaosPotato

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5015 on: June 20, 2021, 08:41:20 pm »

How do I make a noble that arrives at the fortress during the first migrant wave?
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Quaksna

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5016 on: June 21, 2021, 03:16:45 am »

How do I make a noble that arrives at the fortress during the first migrant wave?

Not sure if that's possible. The only nobles that arrive with migrants are the liaison and the monarch, and I think the behavior is hardcoded in their [RESPONSIBILITY] token. The rest you appoint yourself, or get elected when requirements are met, but either way, they become nobles in-game in your fortress.

A way you could simulate the effect would be making a noble position with population requirement 8. As you start with 7 citizens, you won't be able to appoint the noble right away, but you will be once you get your first migrants, even if only a single citizen came. I know it's not very cool solution, but it should work, I don't think you'll force offscreen noble to come to your fort, other than the monarch. 
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ChaosPotato

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5017 on: June 21, 2021, 03:19:31 am »

A way you could simulate the effect would be making a noble position with population requirement 8. As you start with 7 citizens, you won't be able to appoint the noble right away, but you will be once you get your first migrants, even if only a single citizen came. I know it's not very cool solution, but it should work, I don't think you'll force offscreen noble to come to your fort, other than the monarch.
That wouldn't work, the noble in question arriving to the fort is the only way I can think of to guarantee a rare caste showing up.
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Quaksna

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5018 on: June 21, 2021, 03:35:51 am »

A way you could simulate the effect would be making a noble position with population requirement 8. As you start with 7 citizens, you won't be able to appoint the noble right away, but you will be once you get your first migrants, even if only a single citizen came. I know it's not very cool solution, but it should work, I don't think you'll force offscreen noble to come to your fort, other than the monarch.
That wouldn't work, the noble in question arriving to the fort is the only way I can think of to guarantee a rare caste showing up.

Oh I see, you need a caste.

Well I still don't think migrants are the way, you can't mod much with migrants. I guess you could get a rare caste via some DfHack summoning trickery, not sure if you're using DfHack tho. You know, with a reaction, like, I don't know, sacrifice a thousand of goat hearts to summon an ancestor god, or something. But I guess that wouldn't fit your context. It's a possibility, still.
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Strik3r

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5019 on: June 21, 2021, 03:37:07 am »

A way you could simulate the effect would be making a noble position with population requirement 8. As you start with 7 citizens, you won't be able to appoint the noble right away, but you will be once you get your first migrants, even if only a single citizen came. I know it's not very cool solution, but it should work, I don't think you'll force offscreen noble to come to your fort, other than the monarch.
That wouldn't work, the noble in question arriving to the fort is the only way I can think of to guarantee a rare caste showing up.

Oh... I see. Maybe you should give more details. Perhaps there is another way around the issue that avoids the fickle migrant wave system?

Something i thought of but i'm not sure anyone's tested; what happens if the expedition leader is forced to be of a certain(rare) caste? Will the fortress start without an expedition leader, will it enforce the generation of at least one individual of the appropriate caste or will the game crash? Maybe you could try this and report back on your findings? :D
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Quaksna

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5020 on: June 21, 2021, 04:03:28 am »

I think one thing I picked up from world gens and fort mode testing is that the caste requirement for nobles is kinda fickle. If there are individuals of the caste living, they'll take the post. When there are no around, other castes will take it, when the race is no longer around, other creatures will take it. So yeah, it works, it will give you the caste initially, but overtime it can be occupied by undesirable characters.

I did once a male-exclusive expedition leader, and it worked very consistently, I guess because both males and females are both very numerous. But rarer the caste, the more weird stuff could happen.

This could interest you Strik3r, a thing I did fairly recently - I had a invader species of energy elemental-like beings who weren't supposed to reproduce, but in the world gen civs like that won't stay for long and will generally struggle, as they can't replenish populations (initially they have like 300 members, and they won't get more of the same race). And that sucked, because these civs were supposed to be ultra powerful in the setting. So I tried to trick the world gen, that they can reproduce, while they can't. And I succeeded actually.

My first try was to make female and male castes that [DOES_NOT_EXIST]. But that doesn't work with a civ, I found out, at the start of world gen, each civ will get a share of all its castes. So males and females spawned regardless. Then, I tried to make their [POP_RATIO] to 0, but again, they did generate regardless. Pop ratio does affect this initial population tho, as they were very few, as if the ratio was 100:1, so that does something. Then I made the ultimate solution, making these castes [MAXAGE] one year. And that was it, as the first population of the civ, you can see, has birth dates like -36 or -1568 for elves and so, they're already aged adults. So what this maxage did was, effectively wiping out all the male and female castes, so they had no effect on the gameplay, nor world gen (Except for deities, who still could get those castes. But I'm okay with that, and the pop ratio should again affect how often is such deity generated). So the final result was a civ of creatures that couldn't breed, but the world gen thought they could, so their pops were rising and they could effectively compete with other civs.

It's also really interesting trying to balance civs out and make the raws so that you get some more and some less powerful, it opens many possibilities for your setting.
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Strik3r

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5021 on: June 21, 2021, 04:55:50 am »

*snipped for length*

Oh, that is pretty interesting actually. I'm not sure what yet, but this is sure to have some applications.
I feel like stuff like this (tips, tricks and discoveries) should be collected somewhere. Sure, there is the wiki, but it's mostly just a dry reference for tokens and similar stuff. I'm thinking something like the worldgen cookbook thread, except for modding. Or perhaps more like an "ingredient guide", ha ha.

My first try was to make female and male castes that [DOES_NOT_EXIST]. But that doesn't work with a civ, I found out.

Oh, [DOES_NOT_EXIST] doesn't work at all. Or rather it's badly misnamed. The only thing it actually does is make a creature "Mythical" and always known-about, for art purposes.
I once tried to eliminate ettins or something from the world using [DOES_NOT_EXIST] but they still spawned, leaving me to conclude that [DOES_NOT_EXIST] has nothing to do with actual generation of creatures.


I suppose here's a recent discovery i made, not nearly that groundbreaking but still a nice minor detail:

TLCM_TIMING, the token used in the vanilla game for making humans' hair turn grey in old age is alot more versatile than i previously thought. Specifically the preceding TL_COLOR_MODIFIER, the same token used for all coloring of skin, hair and in my case, fur, isn't limited to just having one color.

In my mod, this is used for having the pups be born with completely white (and sparse) fur and develop into their adult coloration shortly before reaching adulthood, which will be one of the colors specified in said preceding TL_COLOR_MODIFIER tag. Such a small detail but it's one of those things that adds so much when playing fortress mode, IMO.

EDIT: Theres some other stuff too, for example the initial white color that all pups are born with is defined before any castes, while the adult colorations, the one they develop into are defined inside the castes, with males and females having different adult coloration. And it works just fine, but i suppose being able to do stuff like this hinges a bit on understanding how DF reads the raws.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 05:03:36 am by Strik3r »
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Quaksna

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5022 on: June 21, 2021, 05:15:24 am »

Yeah in my last mod I've been dabbling with change of hair color too, cool stuff. And yes, it would be really sweet to have some modding tips collection. This thread and the other one are neat and all, but it should be stored somewhere.
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TomiTapio

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5023 on: June 21, 2021, 09:45:28 am »

it would be really sweet to have some modding tips collection.
This thread and the other one are neat and all, but it should be stored somewhere.

OldGenesis (by Deon and myself) notes and to-do items text file has the following tricks stored:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Wiki's modding guide has no tricks: https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Modding
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 09:51:38 am by TomiTapio »
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ChaosPotato

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #5024 on: June 22, 2021, 02:11:00 am »

How do I avoid the dark fortress crash? I HAVE managed to make a dark fortress civilization with only custom positions before, but I forgot how I did it. Using a different site type isn't an option, I tried CAVE_DETAILED but trying to get it to not spawn hillocks resulted in the civilization not spreading.

Edit: I'm not even sure if this is the dark fortress crash or something else, it doesn't always happen and I've managed to go 185 years without a crash (probably could've gone further but I aborted worldgen because the aforementioned civ was losing too many wars).
« Last Edit: June 23, 2021, 12:39:44 am by ChaosPotato »
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