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[slayorwrath]

So on my latest world I finally got attacked by Goblins (about 1.5 years in) and they completely demolished a 9 squad strong military, probably not all that surprising, some were proficient but most were barely through "basic" yet.
After the massacre I closed off the fort for about a year, waiting for the last members of the goblins to bugger off (I managed to catch about 12 that breached the retractable bridge in cages and happily disarmed all of them) I finally let everyone out to catch some fresh air, reclaim corpses, and any gear from the few goblins that actually died. They immediately ambushed again, a 12 strong force of assholes with bows, and a whole group with axes and swords and... well you get the picture.

I sent everyone back into the fortress again, with no military and only about 20 dwarves left I wasn't going to risk losing the entire fort so soon into the game. they hung around outside, waiting for me to lower the bridge, all the while making a mess of traders, and any immigrants that happened to get too close while sitting outside wondering how to get in.... After 2 years they left... and then... I lowered the bridge again, trying to reclaim bits and pieces from all the dead traders/caravans.

A minotaur (almost immediately) comes upon us, a giant bastard that takes down 7 regular dwarves in less than 2 minutes, chasing them down then spreading bits of them all over the battlefield before they even realised what they were running from.

I assemble the saddest looking squad I've ever seen, they'd been training less than a year, most if not all of them were recruits, some armed with iron/silver weaponry due to the goblin captures/corpses. they massacred the minotaur in about 10 minutes, one of the squadmembers got 2 or 3 good hits in, he ran for it, and he was faaaast. bleeding from just about everywhere, they cut him off at every turn and embedded his skull quite neatly into his brain, spreading most of his limbs across a 20 metre area while they were at it.

My question is this: how the hell did my previous squad, which was comprised of mostly proficient sword/axe and so on dwarves get completely owned by a ragtag bunch of goblins and yet a bunch of completely incompetent dwarves take down a minotaur without breaking a sweat? was it the weapons, just pure luck? or a mix of both?

[Girlinhat]

My favorite part is where you keep letting the dwarves back out.  "I know we got massacred the last three times we touched the grass, but I have a good feeling this time!"

Minotaurs can be outnumbered, chances are goblins will outnumber you.  With whips.

[xmakina]

As Girlinhat said, numbers can beat quality and whips are just the worst. Also, like any system that uses randomisation, sometimes you just keep rolling 1's.

[SRD]

'The fluffy wambler strikes the bronze colossus in the head and the severed part sails off into the air!'

Must I say any more?

[slayorwrath]

It was the temptation of all the gear left outside that kept me going out, also, on the mention of whips, that's pretty much what ended the last military, they all waited outside my bridge for nearly a year, unfortunately no one seems to want to help out on the siege building, so I'm constructing a massssssive length of cage and stone fall traps, if I can't kill them, I'll make the worlds biggest goblin zoo, which btw, the 12 children so far in this fort CANNOT stay away from, I should give them sticks to poke the goblins with

[KodKod]

If you close your fortress off to ambushes for an extended period of time with no way to fight off the goblins then you might as well never open your gates again, because there's a good chance that they will be out there waiting for you, likely just as strong as they were when you closed them off.

If you ever find yourself in that situation then the best option is to either train up some Swordlords or fill your fortress with so many traps that your dwarves will spend the next four years cleaning up goblin limbs.

[Broseph Stalin]

Megabeasts that aren't made of metal and don't have insta-kill syndromes actually really easy to zerg rush. An untrained and unarmed militia could have probably taken the minotaur down. Goblins have numbers on their side, instead of ten dwarves fighting one minotaur you have one dwarf fighting one armed, armoured, and trained goblin. If even one dwarf loses the odds get a little worse for you. Never ever ever enter a fair fight.

I always build a designated ass-kicking zone, it's an enclosed area filled with traps and war animals. I station my troops there and open the gate so that the enemy comes to them, that way they fight as a unit and on their terms.

[Malarauko]

Its always pot luck with combat. You can tip the odds in your favour by having good gear and training but then again maybe not. There is a marked difference between 10 v 1 and 30 v 10. If you're outnumbered then you're at a serious disadvantage no matter how good your troops. Enemies will naturally have more time to rain blows on your troops while they're busy with others. If you outnumber the enemy you gain the same advantage. Death by a thousand cuts.

[Loud Whispers]

Its always pot luck with combat. You can tip the odds in your favour by having good gear and training but then again maybe not.

Training tends to make soldiers much more likely to survive combat than armour (with an exception to odd creatures like D of course).

There is a marked difference between 10 v 1 and 30 v 10. If you're outnumbered then you're at a serious disadvantage no matter how good your troops. Enemies will naturally have more time to rain blows on your troops while they're busy with others. If you outnumber the enemy you gain the same advantage. Death by a thousand cuts.

The general issue here is that the classic Dwarf vs Goblin scenario usually involves a lot of charging and getting knocked down. 70 unarmoured, unequipped proficient/elite wrestlers vs a siege with bowgoblins and master lashers (no armour-aint got nothin' on us), the goblins just kept getting charged and knocked down, they barely got more than a few dozen (lethal) hits out. Dwarves are small, but so are goblins.

Numbers > Training > Weapon+Shield > Armour VS Goblins

[Malarauko]

Its always pot luck with combat. You can tip the odds in your favour by having good gear and training but then again maybe not.

Training tends to make soldiers much more likely to survive combat than armour (with an exception to odd creatures like D of course).

There is a marked difference between 10 v 1 and 30 v 10. If you're outnumbered then you're at a serious disadvantage no matter how good your troops. Enemies will naturally have more time to rain blows on your troops while they're busy with others. If you outnumber the enemy you gain the same advantage. Death by a thousand cuts.

The general issue here is that the classic Dwarf vs Goblin scenario usually involves a lot of charging and getting knocked down. 70 unarmoured, unequipped proficient/elite wrestlers vs a siege with bowgoblins and master lashers (no armour-aint got nothin' on us), the goblins just kept getting charged and knocked down, they barely got more than a few dozen (lethal) hits out. Dwarves are small, but so are goblins.

Numbers > Training > Weapon+Shield > Armour VS Goblins

Exactly.

[Old Greg]

Yup. I once had a cyclops attack while I was being sieged by frogmen (small, measly little attackers with only copper). The cyclops barely took two steps before it was mobbed and killed.

The fact that semimegabeasts like that are unarmored actually makes them incredibly squishy, despite being pretty formidable offensively. Try taking them down in adventure mode; it'll only take a couple well-placed shots if you have a halfway decent weapon and a modicum of skill.

[i2amroy]

Numbers > Training > Weapon+Shield > Armour VS Goblins

I tend to find that numbers>training only holds true if one of two things also holds.
A)Your dwarves are all trained to at least a proficient level of skill
B)# of dwarves >> # of enemies
If neither of these two things are true, then I tend to find that
training > numbers > weapon+shield > armor VS goblins

I've had several times where 80 peasants (even armored peasants) have all thrown themselves towards a group of 10 or so swordsgoblins with an elite melee and have promptly been slaughtered.

[Monk321654]

Yup. I once had a cyclops attack while I was being sieged by frogmen (small, measly little attackers with only copper). The cyclops barely took two steps before it was mobbed and killed.

The fact that semimegabeasts like that are unarmored actually makes them incredibly squishy, despite being pretty formidable offensively. Try taking them down in adventure mode; it'll only take a couple well-placed shots if you have a halfway decent weapon and a modicum of skill.

The Epitome of Glass Cannons.


I think I need to mod a new creature.
How easily does Glass break?

[Syndic]

minotaurs are (almost?) always naked and unarmed. that makes them really easy to kill.

[Monk321654]

minotaurs are (almost?) always naked and unarmed. that makes them really easy to kill.

Huh.
I thought the Wiki said they come with a weapon nowadays?