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[MetalSlimeHunt]

Honestly I sort of want to know what exactly he even did to get the police to start shooting.

Did you read the entire article? The police say he came at them with a knife after they shouted at him and broke into his apartment.

Actually, it said he went for the knife after they tazered and beanbagged him.

Which he supposedly just shrugged off. I know the guy's a marine, but that sounds like something they made up after the fact.

[armeggedonCounselor]

Honestly I sort of want to know what exactly he even did to get the police to start shooting.

Did you read the entire article? The police say he came at them with a knife after they shouted at him and broke into his apartment.

Actually, it said he went for the knife after they tazered and beanbagged him.

Which he supposedly just shrugged off. I know the guy's a marine, but that sounds like something they made up after the fact.

Normal people can and do shrug off getting tazed or beanbagged. Maybe not immediately and definitely not consistently, but when you're panicking and frightened and the adrenaline gets going, it can take broken bones to put somebody down long enough to get them restrained. If the guy managed to get the tazer out of his skin (or if it never got all the way into the skin, or if he broke the wires) then the tazer would have stopped being effective, and beanbags work by causing a large amount of pain.

Though I fail to see what the police officers saw as particularly threatening, or why they were there in the first place, or why they opened fire even with less-than-lethal.

[Aqizzar]

Okay, I'm reading this news story backwards and forwards, and I can't figure out why police were breaking into an apartment in the first place.  The guy's Medic Alert signaled for an ambulance and a squad car followed.  Perfectly normal.  Jump cut to an hour later, where there's five officers knocking down the door.  What the fuck happened that got five officers on the scene with guns drawn?  Why is that not addressed anywhere in the report?

[Bloxace]

Might I point out it is illegal (last I checked) to give medical care to someone who is unwilling? Because locking medical professionals out of your home sounds pretty unwilling to me. 

[armeggedonCounselor]

Might I point out it is illegal (last I checked) to give medical care to someone who is unwilling? Because locking medical professionals out of your home sounds pretty unwilling to me.

To be fair, I think the assumption was that he had suffered a coronary or something and was unable to get to the door, which may explain why the police broke into his house. His medical alert pendant alerted the medics to something going wrong, and when they asked for confirmation they got no answer. So I can understand them breaking in. I still fail to understand why the police acted in the way they did. Or even why they opened fire with less-than-lethal weapons to begin with.

I think I fail to understand because I have a mostly functioning brain.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

He yelled at the police to leave when they banged on his door, which legally constitutes a refusal of medical care.

[Aqizzar]

He yelled at the police to leave when they banged on his door, which legally constitutes a refusal of medical care.

Well, that would do it all right.  It might constitute refusal of medical care, but yelling at a police officer to leave you alone is as anyone knows an illegally binding invitation for them to get violently up in your business.

[armeggedonCounselor]

He yelled at the police to leave when they banged on his door, which legally constitutes a refusal of medical care.

Well, that would do it all right.  It might constitute refusal of medical care, but yelling at a police officer to leave you alone is as anyone knows an illegally binding invitation for them to get violently up in your business.

Thinking about it for a moment, I think the fact that the ambulance was called does constitute probable cause for the police to enter his home, even without a warrant.

That's a definite bug in the probable cause code. That people can get away with something like this simply by being a police officer and saying they had enough reason to believe someone was in danger.

Maybe this will spark a change in the system that will make everything better. Or, more likely, maybe this will get swept under the rug and ignored, with the officers responsible being given a slap on the wrist at best and fired at worst.

I want to be an optimist really bad, but the universe keeps getting in my way.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Thinking about it for a moment, I think the fact that the ambulance was called does constitute probable cause for the police to enter his home, even without a warrant.

If no one was responding. He responded. He denied them entry.

They broke into his home and murdered him in cold blood.

I think it's pretty clear who is legally at fault here.

[Loud Whispers]

I think it's pretty clear who is legally at fault here.

The evil old former marine who aggravated police by getting shot? By the police?

No?

Then who?

[fqllve]

Actually it's the people who made a medical alert pendant with the "Have police break into my home and shoot me" button.

[RedKing]

Well, admittedly without compete details, I could see it from this standpoint.

1. Receive notice of medical emergency. No response when prompted.
2. Dispatch ambulance and police.
3. When you get there, the door is locked and there's somebody inside telling you to go away.

Now, if you don't realize that the person at the door and the person having the medical emergency are the same person....you might envision an assault situation where somebody broke in, attacked the old person living there, and is trying to get you to leave.

BUT...there was obviously a more prolonged period *after* that, when they in fact knew his identity, knew he was a former Marine, knew he had a history of emotional problems and proceeded to taunt him as his niece was 20 feet away. That's the part that's WTF to me. Okay, maybe former Marine dude is a little unstable, maybe confrontational, maybe confused. You've got his extended family within arm's reach. WHY ARE YOU AGGRAVATING THE SITUATION? That goes counter to every bit of situational training a cop is supposed to get.

[Neonivek]

Yeah I agree with RedKing

It isn't a mystery why the police would come and why they would force their way into the appartment.

It is everything AFTER that... which is terrible. Why does this keep reminding me of that guy who tricked the police into arresting the homeowner?

[JoshuaFH]

Yeah I agree with RedKing

It isn't a mystery why the police would come and why they would force their way into the appartment.

It is everything AFTER that... which is terrible. Why does this keep reminding me of that guy who tricked the police into arresting the homeowner?

This also reminds me of the time the police tazed and arrested someone for breaking into their own home, who was drunk and didn't realize he had tripped the alarm when he passed out.

[RedKing]

Yeah I agree with RedKing

It isn't a mystery why the police would come and why they would force their way into the appartment.

It is everything AFTER that... which is terrible. Why does this keep reminding me of that guy who tricked the police into arresting the homeowner?

This also reminds me of the time the police tazed and arrested someone for breaking into their own home, who was drunk and didn't realize he had tripped the alarm when he passed out.

Well that one I can kinda understand. Alarm goes off, you come in and find a drunk guy passed out on the floor. First thought is probably not going to be "Hey, I bet he lives here." Taser was probably overkill.