Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Neonivek]

I wonder did we ever put Ars Magica in this thread?

It really is probably the shining example of a good game being sold as badly as possible where even the few good ideas (like ANY artist rendering of what the game will look like) were actually told to them by the community.

Which believe it or not it is because they thought they were going to get a chunk of everyone who has even bought or read an Ars Magica system book.

[Draco18s]

hookerbots

No no.  "Hookerbot."  There was only going to be one.

[Trollheiming]

All of those examples appear to be cases in which Kickstarter went right. They weren't funded.

One thing about Kickstarter, the rubes are protected from obvious scams by requiring a certain critical mass of them to accumulate within a short timeframe. And that's herding cats. Places like Indiegogo don't have that safety measure.

[Neonivek]

We pretty much established waay earlier that this topic is basically "complain about stuff you don't like that is on Kickstarter"

heck I am stretching it by including a good game that wasn't funded because the people who put it up were TERRIBLE salesmen.

[Zangi]

We pretty much established waay earlier that this topic is basically "complain about stuff you don't like that is on Kickstarter"

heck I am stretching it by including a good game that wasn't funded because the people who put it up were TERRIBLE salesmen.

Indeed, they were... know if they are going to try again or did they decide to shelve it forever because they still don't understand what the hell they did wrong?

[Neonivek]

We pretty much established waay earlier that this topic is basically "complain about stuff you don't like that is on Kickstarter"

heck I am stretching it by including a good game that wasn't funded because the people who put it up were TERRIBLE salesmen.

Indeed, they were... know if they are going to try again or did they decide to shelve it forever because they still don't understand what the hell they did wrong?

No they basically said that was the ONLY chance they would EVER have to do it and so there is never going to be an Ars Magica game.

Which you would think that it would mean they would put more care and attention into presentation... but nope.

It really could be used as the textbook example of how NOT to handle a kickstarter when your project is genuinly good.

It is to me entirely qualifying as "When Kickstarter goes wrong" and would definately hold in the top 10 of all the projects listed in this topic.

[Servant Corps]

Well, that's not what they officially said.

Creator Black Chicken Studios on December 22
All;
Hey, thanks for the comments! It doesn't look like we'll make another attempt very soon- possibly after our next release or so, but thanks for the attention!
We'd love to be working on this in the background, but the reality of our development is that we can't afford it- if we could, we wouldn't have come to KickStarter to begin with.

Which means they might revisit this project in the future, after they release a couple of games. And if they fail to release those games in the future, then it's probably likely they would have failed to produce an Ars Magica game.

[MrWiggles]

http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/when-kickstarter-investors-want-their-money-back.html

[Servant Corps]

Four weeks later, on Nov 28, 2011, Quest posted an update explaining that the Hanfree project had officially failed, and said he planned to offer refunds to backers.

It wasn't enough for Singh. Kickstarter's terms make it clear that project creators must "refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill." So when weeks passed without receiving one, Singh threatened a lawsuit.

Other backers, like Aza Summers, disagreed with Singh's approach. "Those on this thread who are treating Seth with such harsh judgments and threats of lawsuit (over a $50 or $100 pledge?!) are not the kind of people that I would expect to be the usual kickstarter [sic] backer type," Summers wrote. "It seems to me that Seth has acted in good, if naive, faith, and will do his best to compensate us backers, either by moving the project forward or by a settlement offer."

But Singh was adamant.

"Seth just stalled, and stalled, and stalled," Singh says. "For me, this is why I became a lawyer. I guess I'm more of an idealist than anything else. It just ticked me off."

In May 2012, Singh filed paperwork in Arizona's Justice Court citing breach of contract. He sued both Quest and his business partner, Juan Cespedes, though he eventually dropped the case against Cespedes.

...

Because he never incorporated Hanfree, Quest was personally liable for the refunds. But the money from the backers was gone, spent on engineers and contract manufacturers. The lawsuit forced him into bankruptcy. From there, things only got worse.

Later that year, Quest moved to Brooklyn, but because of the damage to his reputation, he could only find part-time work in what he calls a non-design-related field. To deal with his anxiety and hypertension, he picked up yoga and joined a boxing gym. These days, he's doing better, but it's a part of his life he hopes to move on from.

"When you fail on Kickstarter, it's a very public failure," says Quest. "It definitely derailed my career substantially. Your backers can give you massive support, but they can also tear you down if you fail.

So it is possible to successfully file a lawsuit and win in court. That being said, I do feel kinda sorry for Quest.

[Criptfeind]

The lawyer guy sounds like a fucking asshole. "I was a shitty consumer and so I sued this guy."

It highlights what seems like a big issue on kickstarter for me, on all sides (backers producers and kickstarter itself.)

None of this shit is made. Most of it has a substantial chance of failing to go though. It seems utterly idiotic to me the idea that anyone would depend on kickstarter for anything and think of it as anything but a bet. Even the rewards.

And yet backers expect things, producers promise things, and kickstarter itself does not care so long as it is legally untouchable and gets its cut.

[MarcAFK]

I'll admit that in this case everyone is at fault, the producer didn't know what he was getting himself into and the pledges didn't really understand the risks involved with this particular kickstart.
But it's mostly kickstarter because they have created this system which sometiems doesn't worrk, usually for product and software projects.
Kickstarter should take more care before accepting these sorts of projects and they should probably use or create some organisation that gives these people more support and information about the risks involved and which works with them before they even submit the project.
I understand kickstarter can not itself get involved with these projects because that would leave it liable for failed projects, but i think that by NOT doing everything in it's power to ensure the project managers are well organised they are leaving themself liable anyway.
And possibly there should be an option to allow projects to stop getting pledges after a certain point, i've seen so many get in trouble because of problems caused by attempting to get out more rewards than origonally planned for, or prehaps the project managers or product and software projects should need to submit detailed plans showing exacty how they will be able to provide ALL rewards within budget; for instance quotes from particular T shirt printers and postage estimate from post office, etc.

[rabidgam3r]

Maybe this belongs in Other Games? just saying.

[lordcooper]

Maybe this belongs in Other Games? just saying.

No.  Occasionally we laugh at things other than games in here.

[JWNoctis]

In contrary to popular belief, Kickstarter is not all about games.

So it is possible to successfully file a lawsuit and win in court. That being said, I do feel kinda sorry for Quest.

So it has already happened, and...that's drastic.

I mean, I'm all for suing outright con cases, but this...All investments has its own risk, and Kickstarter's TOS is designed to -theorically- take the risk away from supporters. But that risk has to go somewhere. I feel sorry for him.

[Karlito]

Maybe this belongs in Other Games? just saying.

I'm pretty sure it was, originally. But this is a better place for it.