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[MasterMorality]

So we now have necromancy. It's the only system implemented so far, but it's caused epic stories nonetheless. I suppose I could put Lycanthropy in there with magick, but I don't feel it truly belongs on the same wavelength, so Necromancy it is.
From here there are countless schools and practices of magick, occultism, mysticism, etc that could appear. From Pyromancy to Shamanism to old school 'sympathetic' magick using wax figures and heated nails - it all depends on what Toady feels like doing on this particular subject, but knowing Dwarf Fortress, whatever it is will have insane consequences.

But, I'd like to hear other peoples visions for the future of magick in this game, regardless of whether they expect it tobe done in the next ten thousand years.

I was personally trying to work out how something like Shamanism might work. I think it could be interesting - they could brew all these psychotropic drinks or whatever out of specific ingredients which would make them do weird things (the DF equivalent of Ayahausca), maybe tame some random local wildlife as a companion (unless there was some way in which they could obtain a spiritual animal companion, but I'm not sure how that would work gameplay wise) and do something scary with the surrounding wilderness - tree/plant Golems, anyone?

I have this hilarious image, several versions from now, of several different types of Magi showing up at a fortress, all at once, and fighting it out while you decide whether or not you want to engage these nut cases or just hold back and watch the fireworks.

So anyway, go crazy.

[Spinal232]

I just want Dwarven Alchomancy.

[Naros]

MasterMorality, are you merely using the word Magic and pasting a K on the end of it or are you referring to the implementation of 'magick' ("a specific system of ritual magic deriving from the religious philosophy of Thelema") within the scope of the DF magic system?

[Mr S]

Just my opinion, but I'm thinking the full on magic(k) system may be put after the personality rewrite.  My reasoning is that not everybody is suited for magic.  OK, as an adventurer, I'd say you may be pre-disposed to using all kinds of things, but the idea is that adventurers are a fractional minority of the populace at large.  So, who gets magic?  As far as game mechanics go, I'd say there would need to be some kind of personality/trait tag with a suitably small chance of surpassing the threshhold to permit learning magic.  Just my two urist's worth.

[Shinotsa]

Note: The word magic(k) has been used in so many different spellings under so many different names, most likely due to its roots in fiction and the supernatural, that any spelling is certainly valid for something as informal as an internet forum.

Anyhow, I think that some sort of shamanistic ritual would be great for improving some of the innate things that don't really improve otherwise, like patience, willpower, memory, etc. Pretty much you go to a small, randomly generated fantasy plane with cryptic instructions like "Follow the path of fading life" or "tread on the coals" where you follow a blood trail/burnt area to an eventual goal. If you "die" during the dream you can come out of the experience with reduced attributes or simply have to try again. Perhaps if the RNG is really mean during worldgen you'll occasionally be stalked by the spirit creatures hungry for the soul that was denied to them...

Another thing I'm really excited for is the "apprentice/master" relationship Zach had in once of his recent stories. The primary thing here is that it's hard to establish a relationship with someone right now. I don't think we could ever have joint quests with AI (just look at how badly it works in other games. The words "escort quest" make any RPGer shudder) but I think that having a mentor send you out to collect books, perform research (which will also factor into randomly generated planes of existance and the powers contained therein, something useful to know with other adventurers) and perhaps calm down (read: slaughter) a fearful mob of peasants that are distrustful of the unknown powers you meddle with. Perhaps if wizards are associated with a village you could either help the villagers in their battles or punish your slaves for not working faster or something. Think "YOU ARE WIZARD!" with less abject silliness. Or the same amount knowing Dwarf Fortress. Court wizards could also be incredibly interesting, especially if some of them are evil and influencing their kingdom; you could then change the whole world by killing off this wizard and changing a warlike kingdom into a completely different place.

TLDR: I'm really excited for the possibilities magic(k) will bring into the game. Maybe too excited. I could write ideas for pages, but I'll control myself and wait a bit to see what others think. 

[Naros]

There's room for a lot of magic in DF. Though I for one would really like some world-gen parameters for it.

The differences between a high-magic world and a low-magic world are huge, and make for distinctly different stories and experiences. <3

[Neonivek]

There's room for a lot of magic in DF. Though I for one would really like some world-gen parameters for it.

The differences between a high-magic world and a low-magic world are huge, and make for distinctly different stories and experiences. <3

I agree. I look forward to the day where a world can actually have large differences between them without even needing to pick them.

Like a world where gods are so absent it is like they don't even exist, and a world where gods are so present in everyday experiences that they are dirrectly involved in the forming of history, civilisations, and other such things.

It would be interesting Genning a world and needing to find out if it is a high-magic world or a low-magic world.

[Shinotsa]

Oh geez. Never thought about the exponentially increasing number of possibilities when the game gets up there. High magic vs low magic? High savagery vs low savagery? High evil vs low evil? Each already impacts the world to a degree (even magic if you consider werebeasts/vampires/necromancers) but when more variables get put in there will literally be thousands of types of worlds. No magic could be an alternate reality historical sim to the tune of Mount and Blade, low magic could be along the lines of Tolkein where there are a few powerful people that have some minor magical abilities which greatly influence the world, medium magic could be like diablo/Elder Scrolls/DnD/generic game where there's magic in everyday life and it's well balanced with physical pursuits.

Any comparisons for an eventual high magic world, where just about everything relies on it and ties to different realms are seen everywhere? I can't think of any at the moment...

And the presence or absence of gods adds another layer. Are the mortal races the masters of the universe with their magic, or are they simply using a gift given to them and easily taken away by those more powerful...

[Cobbler89]

For what it's worth, I think "magic"/"magics" are the "correct" spellings because they parallel "physics", "logic", etc. This is my own, non-academic hunch based on what I know about "magi" (singular "magus") being "wise men" in some senses and "magicians" in others, the overlap stemming from the fact that their art was basically thought to be hidden knowledge about the inner workings of the world. Hence the saying, "Any sufficiently developed technology is indistinguishable from magic", because science/technology is merely unhidden (via empirical enquiry) knowledge about the inner workings of the world and so if somebody doesn't know how it works then they can't tell the difference (even if it really is there in terms of the knowledge itself being naturally revealable rather than occult [that is, hidden]). Anyway... the art of a magus being knowledge-related in some way, I figure "magic" is probably of the same Greek form as "logic", but "magics", being of the same as "physics", might be an acceptable alternative. For further connection, see "magical", "physical", "[al]chemical", etc. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=magic&searchmode=none Seems like I'm not all that far off according to the only good etymology source I know (and I don't even know if it's academic still, but hey).

Of course, I take words way too seriously in any case. ;^)

[MasterMorality]

MasterMorality, are you merely using the word Magic and pasting a K on the end of it or are you referring to the implementation of 'magick' ("a specific system of ritual magic deriving from the religious philosophy of Thelema") within the scope of the DF magic system?

That's actually just something I fell into after reading various books, one of which was indeed by Crowley.
It's got nothing specific to do with Dwarf Fortress.

[Neonivek]

MasterMorality, are you merely using the word Magic and pasting a K on the end of it or are you referring to the implementation of 'magick' ("a specific system of ritual magic deriving from the religious philosophy of Thelema") within the scope of the DF magic system?

That's actually just something I fell into after reading various books, one of which was indeed by Crowley.
It's got nothing specific to do with Dwarf Fortress.

One thing I noticed is that the reason authors use Magick or Magik or anything BUT Magic.

Is because it is cooler or more mysterious then the taudry "Magic". Some fiction goes as far as to avoid calling magic magic in anyway possible.

I've seen people try to justify the other spellings as being more "Archaic" but frankly that doesn't really hold up since if you want to get specific there are a lot of words that have changed over the ages.

Mind you even Lovecraft, one of the kings of horror, did that for the exact same reason. A lot of the criticisms of his books were how random his made up words are, but he actually researched them quite extensively.

[Naros]

MasterMorality, are you merely using the word Magic and pasting a K on the end of it or are you referring to the implementation of 'magick' ("a specific system of ritual magic deriving from the religious philosophy of Thelema") within the scope of the DF magic system?

That's actually just something I fell into after reading various books, one of which was indeed by Crowley.
It's got nothing specific to do with Dwarf Fortress.

Ah, I was wondering because it could be, as with games and fantasy books there's a lot of subclasses of magic, such as Shamanism, based on historical beliefs but moulded into a type of magic that works in certain ways and requires the magic-user to attain certain skills and items in order to use it.
As you merely used it to refer to magic as a whole I'd like to ask that you stick to the game terminology whenever you can. It's not a big issue, but it helps clear up confusion, especially since different kinds of magic are planned to be in DF!

[shadow_archmagi]

Any comparisons for an eventual high magic world, where just about everything relies on it and ties to different realms are seen everywhere? I can't think of any at the moment...

The D&D setting Eberron is High Magic. Khorvaire, the main continent has every major city linked by a train that runs on lightning (Not fueled by- On lightning. Energy rails through the sky.) and during the last great war, every nation mass produced sapient golems (Who are now struggling to find identity and meaning and rights in a postwar world) The gnomes produce flying galleons and other airships for the wealthy, etc.

Then there's also the continent currently ruled over by psychic interdimensional spirits who spent hundreds of years simultaneously ruining the country while giving people prophetic dreams of their arrival, so that when they finally started possessing people and taking over they were heralded as the bringers of peace and prosperity. Now they use their mind-control powers to enjoy an Orwellian empire, resisted only by kung fu geniuses who hide in the mountains of the south...

[Naros]

I'm a big fan of low magic worlds. D&D was ruined for me because, goshdarnit, if you're lost in the desert for a week, you should all die due to dehydration. Having a magic user summon up enough water to provide for a large party of people, or even fancy drinks just spoils all that.

A world where people think magic is just some made up thing, a story element to make fancy tales more fanciful, being a magic user could be great fun.

[Captain Goatse]

Never, ever trust or approach anybody that spells magic with the "k"