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[ArKFallen]

Yes. That's how it started. The /entirely false/ allegation to begin with that was quickly shoved under the rug, but is still the primary image that comes to mind when the issue comes up to people who didn't follow it. The woman who continues to be harassed to this day as it happens. Strange, that.

Yeah. It's not like people telling the internet that a dev is getting dick from a journalist covering them could cause a completely different party of people concerned with the game coverage they use to choose what game to buy could get involved but still not stop the harassment of someone completely peripheral to their concerns. It's not like there was a successful in movement initiative to report fuckasses and harassers to the people hosting some of the larger forums hosting the discussion.
Hateful douchebags did things that resulted in a social movement. News at 11.

The thing about first impressions is that they aren't supposed to stay with you on further encounters. Stupidity is a human trait, ignorance an finite existential one, and finding people in a group who indulge both and have flocked together is not odd at all.

[Bauglir]

Politics is poison. If you're a republican, you have to support gun rights and oppose abortion, even though the two are unrelated. Similarly, if you're democrat, you have to fight global warming and GMO crops, though the latter actually helps solve the former. It's all very dumb.

1:07 forward is surprisingly on-topic

[EnigmaticHat]

I'm still not sure which side is "gamergate".

The side that was fond of the words "ethics in games journalism" and who started the initial accusations and harassment.  From what I can tell they failed to develop (or failed to communicate) a larger coherent platform or goal beyond that so the "movement" was largely sustained by people on twitter independently deciding for themselves what it meant.  That and the large hatedom it spawned.

The "watergate" in question was an ex of the developer of Depression Quest, a tiny indy game, accusing her sleeping with a journalist who reviewed her game.  However every single person on both sides agrees it wasn't really about that, making the name something of a misnomer...

My favorite thing about gamersgate is that even at its height only people who were actively participating in it or decrying it had any idea what it was.  Everyone agrees on what started it, no one can agree what it actually meant.  Its associations with misogyny were largely created by its hatedom and/or the actions of its individual members.  Its difficult to say if said individual members were acting according to the principles of the group because there was never any unity or leadership to begin with.  If it was about ethics in game journalism, why weren't they going after all the obvious corruption by the big players (four point scale and other silliness to keep getting review copies)?  Yet those words were the main rallying cry.

[alway]

It's all the same sorta thing that's resulted in the rise of Donald Trump: there is a growing conservative counterculture in certain places, particularly online. They've got their alternative news sources, their talking heads to proclaim the truth and enemy du jour, complete with narratives about how the barbaric outsiders are taking over and the glorious age of European world domination is coming to a grizzly end.

It's also pretty obvious where it's coming from: conservatives, by and large, have lost the previous attempts at a culture war. It's no longer popular to hate gays openly, being openly racist like the old KKK is no longer acceptable in any circles, young earth creationism is illegal to teach in the US, global warming is both real and having increasingly severe effects acknowledged globally, and so on. Guns in the US and deregulation of banks are some of the few places they actually won victories. Meanwhile, deregulation, globalization, failures of organized labor, and so on, have resulted in increasing wealth inequality pushing nearly the entire US middle class into poverty. It's no surprise that such a conservative counterculture is on the rise and this is precisely the sort of form it will be taking. So buckle up for the new culture war, cause it's here.

[Rolan7]

I can't tell if this is bait, or just regular bitterness. I'm kinda surprised gamergate is still a thing though. Reading through that subreddit is going to be fun.

It's mostly that you'll find these people crawling out of rocks to defending women's rights when and only when it's the people who they hate who are the ones even remotely accused of being the ones to blame. It's so strangely convenient.

"Even remotely accused...?"  The rapes happened.  They were done by refugees.  Are you seriously questioning that at all?

I know that your point is that the people who care about this must be racists who don't actually care about the women.  Which is, at the very best, a disgusting simplification.  Ironically stereotyping a diverse group of people (people outraged over these rapes), to dismiss them.

Of course the "See, these cultures are more overtly raping women, so our feminists should feel lucky and shut up" reactions piss me off just as much.

[Willfor]

I know that your point is that the people who care about this must be racists who don't actually care about the women.

No. I will type out my point so you will not misunderstand it at all: It is perfectly alright to care about it, but about two specific users in this conversation are people I have explicitly seen in topics exactly like this one where their only mention of women's rights comes up in the context of them being violated by Muslims. One of them is literally saying in this conversation that women's rights are at a completely acceptable standard here to boot.

I'm not even generalizing, I just need to use general language because I am not fond of getting hit with the Toad Hammer. Infer, infer, infer.

[Willfor]

I know that your point is that the people who care about this must be racists who don't actually care about the women.

No. I will type out my point so you will not misunderstand it at all: It is perfectly alright to care about it, but about two specific users in this conversation are people I have explicitly seen in topics exactly like this one where their only mention of women's rights comes up in the context of them being violated by Muslims. One of them is literally saying in this conversation that women's rights are at a completely acceptable standard here to boot.

I'm not even generalizing, I just need to use general language because I am not fond of getting hit with the Toad Hammer. Infer, infer, infer.

It's poor form to employ snide hints like that. If you'd like to launch an ad hominem attack on someone, either do so openly or don't do so at all.

Okay.

[Morrigi]

I'm still not sure which side is "gamergate".

The side that was fond of the words "ethics in games journalism" and who started the initial accusations and harassment.  From what I can tell they failed to develop (or failed to communicate) a larger coherent platform or goal beyond that so the "movement" was largely sustained by people on twitter independently deciding for themselves what it meant.  That and the large hatedom it spawned.

I have seen approximately zero hate on their main subreddit. Why is this, if they are actually so hateful? Also, GamerGate meetups have been subject to several bomb threats serious enough to merit police involvement and the evacuation of buildings, while its opponents have not. Furthermore, if criminal harassment was taking place on a large scale, then surely there would have been arrests and charges filed at some point, right?

[Willfor]

You're right, Covenant.

I'd like to get your opinion on this worrying trend.

[Putnam]

I'm still not sure which side is "gamergate".

The side that was fond of the words "ethics in games journalism" and who started the initial accusations and harassment.  From what I can tell they failed to develop (or failed to communicate) a larger coherent platform or goal beyond that so the "movement" was largely sustained by people on twitter independently deciding for themselves what it meant.  That and the large hatedom it spawned.

I have seen approximately zero hate on their main subreddit. Why is this, if they are actually so hateful? Also, GamerGate meetups have been subject to several bomb threats serious enough to merit police involvement and the evacuation of buildings, while its opponents have not. Furthermore, if criminal harassment was taking place on a large scale, then surely there would have been arrests and charges filed at some point, right?

I just browsed their top posts; I noticed nothing insane, but I also noticed a distinct lack of posts that weren't about unethical things done by ess jay dubyas. They're cherry picking the fuck out of examples specifically to deride feminism. The instant clickbait shows up specifically aimed towards them, they eat it up.

Also, this was one of the top posts, so you definitely can't say the movement has nothing like that.

Looking at it at this moment, KiA seems to be in its own little world where feminism and evil done by it is all that matters. Like, holy fucking shit, women are actually being raped en masse and they're using it as an excuse to complain about feminism. That's utterly despicable. I think that's why that particular comic made me go "ew", it's because it's using the horrific pain of human beings to forward a political agenda, which makes me utterly fucking sick.

everyone agrees undertale was great though, ain't that something

[Willfor]

Sorry, first one on the topic I wanted to talk about that came up. There's more. And you brought up guns, but in the Bible Belt it is actually infinitely easier to get a gun than an abortion.

The reason I bring this up is that bodily autonomy is a fundamental right to everyone, and yet this turns into a women's rights issue when it's actively being campaigned against when it comes to them.

Anyway, thanks for answering the question.

Now, as to the other thing, why would I remove it from my post? If I'm wrong, it stands as a testament to my being wrong, something that helps me going forward. I don't remove things from my posts, I move forward after having said them.

[EnigmaticHat]

I'm still not sure which side is "gamergate".

The side that was fond of the words "ethics in games journalism" and who started the initial accusations and harassment.  From what I can tell they failed to develop (or failed to communicate) a larger coherent platform or goal beyond that so the "movement" was largely sustained by people on twitter independently deciding for themselves what it meant.  That and the large hatedom it spawned.

I have seen approximately zero hate on their main subreddit. Why is this, if they are actually so hateful? Also, GamerGate meetups have been subject to several bomb threats serious enough to merit police involvement and the evacuation of buildings, while its opponents have not. Furthermore, if criminal harassment was taking place on a large scale, then surely there would have been arrests and charges filed at some point, right?

Gamersgate is (at least, back when I was looking it up) not primarily run through reddit, it mainly rose to prominence on twitter.

...as for harassment, a group harassing people isn't really criminal since they can each only do a thing once and while it adds up to what laymen would call harassment, legally harassment requires the same person to do a thing several times.  And yes, it is well documented that they harassed at least one person.

Out of kinda/sorta acting unbiased mode, alway summarized my feelings on the matter a lot better than I ever could.  Gamersgate presents itself as a social movement but it isn't, its a backlash.  Has Depression Quest of all games EVER been big enough to justify this many people commenting on how it was marketed?  Is a woman having sex with a journalist (regardless of whether she actually did) representative of the actual problems in gaming journalism?  Of course not.  And its not about games journalism at all, the problems with gaming journalism are common knowledge and gamersgate and its followers have attempted to address exactly none of the real issues.

Spoiler: totally biased, but perfect summary of my opinion (click to show/hide)

There's an absolutely perfect one about comics joker that I just can't find for the life of me

[Putnam]

KiA and #gamergate are different movements, from what I can tell. For some reason, they have the same name.

[Willfor]

To be honest, I am just worried I am having another MetalSlimeHunt moment, and mixing you up with someone else I have interacted with in the past. I am getting old.

[Putnam]

You don't need to have not been doing something for there to be further excuse to do it. I'm saying that their biggest priority when it comes to these attacks appears to be making pithy comics about it.

EDIT: Oh, forgot something.

Obviously islamic nations have far worse institutional issues when it comes to all that, but that's primarily because they actually read their holy book.

Uh, no, it's primarily because the areas are by and large either unstable shitholes or just recently starting to claw their way out of such, mixed with tribal traditions that are also pretty shit. There's a religious aspect to some of the gender shit, but not when it comes to sexual assault and whatnot. Islam's texts take a pretty damn dim view towards rapists and sexual perfidy in general. Consequences tend to involve execution for the perpetrator or stuff that's pretty capable of killing regardless. Lotta' the shit we've been seeing in recent times counter to that is basically fairly forthright heresy.

The religion and interpretations of it has been by far the primary cause of cultural change in that area for the last millennium; ignoring that is not really helpful.

If your religion has to change for the time, throw it away completely, because it's obviously based on something wrong.

EDIT: that sounds like i'm complaining about islam in particular

i am not