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[Max White]

http://news.yahoo.com/u-rights-group-urges-nobel-peace-prize-wikileaks-143943786.html

I approve.

While I certainly approve of a nomination, as far as being granted the award I would have to have a better understanding of who else is in the running.
Even promoting Manning as a candidate should help send a message about how the rest of the world is viewing these events though.

[palsch]

Even promoting Manning as a candidate should help send a message about how the rest of the world is viewing these events though.

The Nobel committee doesn't do that though. All candidates and nominations are kept secret for 50 years. You usually find out lists of candidates because people who nominate them talk about it publicly, or people just campaign for people they assume have been nominated. Which is likely accurate; the list of nominators is so long you can find all kinds of people getting the nod. I remember a holocaust denier rumoured to be on the list this year.

The committee only releases raw numbers of nominations, which this year was 259 with 50 organisations.

[Max White]

Really..? Well that is a little disappointing. Ah well, guess we can't depend on a single prize to solve all our problems.

[kingfisher1112]

http://rt.com/news/russia-jews-fry-comment-396/
Thoughts? I've always wondered why the hell people should care about the democratically voted laws of another country. And the logic of it is appealing as well. Still, your thoughts Bay12?

[LordSlowpoke]

http://rt.com/news/russia-jews-fry-comment-396/
Thoughts? I've always wondered why the hell people should care about the democratically voted laws of another country. And the logic of it is appealing as well. Still, your thoughts Bay12?

people just don't care that russia is a different nation where the status quo for homosexuals is at least a mild dislike because all the countries in the world must conform to their set of beliefs

let's ignore that homosexuality is generally not accepted outside of the west and rage at those wacky russians, right? let's not notice that the same kind of stuff happened when the laws weren't in place (and was widely ignored by the police) but now that the government tries to not make itself look like fools whose decrees are only executed when people find them nice there's an outcry comparable to what i suspect would be the fallout of the leader of germany straight up denying the holocaust and nobody in the government giving a shit

i mean shit, it's generally bad in post-soviet countries if you're not "as normal as possible, but not too normal" and as far inside the closet as the closet goes but you should be looking at kyrgyzstan if you want to be annoyed - no wait, nobody fucking cares about kyrgyzstan. the light that could be shining onto this entire piece of shit situation is about as misplaced as you could put it, short of pointing it at sweden or something

[MonkeyHead]

Ah, people have empathy for what they are shown by the media. People are allowed to feel that other nations have it wrong or right when compared to thier own - we all do it in one way or another, be it regarding a nations stance on race, religion, homosexuality, education, migration, economics and so on, depending on what we are exposed to.  There is nothing wrong with people being angry at the suffering of any particular person/people anywhere in the world, or angry that other places have a better slant on it than thier own. The issue for me is that the media deems certain suffering/intolerance more worthy of air time than others, espcailly when it is relevant to issues under debate in thier own nation.

[alexandertnt]

because all the countries in the world must conform to their set of beliefs

Our set of beliefs is to complain about their set of beliefs.

If its their culture to dislike homosexual behaviour (and that somehow means we shouldnt compain about it), then its our culture to complain and make noise about it (and that means they shouldnt complain about us complaining, riiiight?).

The comparison to Hitler in the article is just godwins law, though.

[Leafsnail]

I think the comparison to Jews is Nazi Germany is pretty apt, and if anyone disagrees I'd like them to explain why.

http://rt.com/news/russia-jews-fry-comment-396/
Thoughts? I've always wondered why the hell people should care about the democratically voted laws of another country. And the logic of it is appealing as well. Still, your thoughts Bay12?

We should care about the "democratically" (considering it's Putin you have to use the word fairly lightly) voted laws of another country when they are about to win a huge propaganda victory thanks to major international sporting events that we are supporting.  Particularly if those laws involve are openly bigoted.

What do you think about the 1936 Olympics?  Was it a good idea to allow Hitler to have an internationally supported celebration of Aryanism?  I mean, all those laws restricting the rights of Jews were just the democratically voted laws of another country.

people just don't care that russia is a different nation where the status quo for homosexuals is at least a mild dislike because all the countries in the world must conform to their set of beliefs

let's ignore that homosexuality is generally not accepted outside of the west and rage at those wacky russians, right? let's not notice that the same kind of stuff happened when the laws weren't in place (and was widely ignored by the police) but now that the government tries to not make itself look like fools whose decrees are only executed when people find them nice there's an outcry comparable to what i suspect would be the fallout of the leader of germany straight up denying the holocaust and nobody in the government giving a shit

i mean shit, it's generally bad in post-soviet countries if you're not "as normal as possible, but not too normal" and as far inside the closet as the closet goes but you should be looking at kyrgyzstan if you want to be annoyed - no wait, nobody fucking cares about kyrgyzstan. the light that could be shining onto this entire piece of shit situation is about as misplaced as you could put it, short of pointing it at sweden or something

Kyrgyzstan isn't going to be hosting the Olympics.  Your moral relativism argument is bullshit (you could equally say in 1936 that most countries didn't accept Jews, so why get annoyed at Germany?) and the fact that the government is officially siding with the bigots is a serious issue.

[Max White]

I'm going with Leafsnail on this one. It is the state turning against a minority. I don't care if it is 'just how they are', that is just unacceptable. Not much I can add that he hasn't put better.

[LordSlowpoke]

people just don't care that russia is a different nation where the status quo for homosexuals is at least a mild dislike because all the countries in the world must conform to their set of beliefs

let's ignore that homosexuality is generally not accepted outside of the west and rage at those wacky russians, right? let's not notice that the same kind of stuff happened when the laws weren't in place (and was widely ignored by the police) but now that the government tries to not make itself look like fools whose decrees are only executed when people find them nice there's an outcry comparable to what i suspect would be the fallout of the leader of germany straight up denying the holocaust and nobody in the government giving a shit

i mean shit, it's generally bad in post-soviet countries if you're not "as normal as possible, but not too normal" and as far inside the closet as the closet goes but you should be looking at kyrgyzstan if you want to be annoyed - no wait, nobody fucking cares about kyrgyzstan. the light that could be shining onto this entire piece of shit situation is about as misplaced as you could put it, short of pointing it at sweden or something

Kyrgyzstan isn't going to be hosting the Olympics.  Your moral relativism argument is bullshit (you could equally say in 1936 that most countries didn't accept Jews, so why get annoyed at Germany?) and the fact that the government is officially siding with the bigots is a serious issue.

i'm sorry what

how does a sport event have any, any correlation with bigots? there always were bigots and always will be bigots. i didn't claim the government is siding with them, because it bloody well isn't, at least not more than it was previously (since that seems to be your point in this case). the law doesn't say "well normally you're forbidden to do this but if you feel like doing it to a homosexual go ahead"

oh and sure let's not get annoyed at this whole hitler thing it was all because of these silly jews, should have just left europe altogether since nobody accepted them there i like your thinking how about we make a country for lgbts and say "fuck it, we're done, segregation time" like they themselves did after the fact

[alexandertnt]

The problem is the same with all comparisons with the Nazi's. The argument rarely has anything to do with the Nazi's, and is just a way of attaching negative emotions to something through association.

[10ebbor10]

This discussion is no longer calm, or cool.

[kingfisher1112]

I think the comparison to Jews is Nazi Germany is pretty apt, and if anyone disagrees I'd like them to explain why.

http://rt.com/news/russia-jews-fry-comment-396/
Thoughts? I've always wondered why the hell people should care about the democratically voted laws of another country. And the logic of it is appealing as well. Still, your thoughts Bay12?

We should care about the "democratically" (considering it's Putin you have to use the word fairly lightly) voted laws of another country when they are about to win a huge propaganda victory thanks to major international sporting events that we are supporting.  Particularly if those laws involve are openly bigoted.

What do you think about the 1936 Olympics?  Was it a good idea to allow Hitler to have an internationally supported celebration of Aryanism?  I mean, all those laws restricting the rights of Jews were just the democratically voted laws of another country.

people just don't care that russia is a different nation where the status quo for homosexuals is at least a mild dislike because all the countries in the world must conform to their set of beliefs

let's ignore that homosexuality is generally not accepted outside of the west and rage at those wacky russians, right? let's not notice that the same kind of stuff happened when the laws weren't in place (and was widely ignored by the police) but now that the government tries to not make itself look like fools whose decrees are only executed when people find them nice there's an outcry comparable to what i suspect would be the fallout of the leader of germany straight up denying the holocaust and nobody in the government giving a shit

i mean shit, it's generally bad in post-soviet countries if you're not "as normal as possible, but not too normal" and as far inside the closet as the closet goes but you should be looking at kyrgyzstan if you want to be annoyed - no wait, nobody fucking cares about kyrgyzstan. the light that could be shining onto this entire piece of shit situation is about as misplaced as you could put it, short of pointing it at sweden or something

Kyrgyzstan isn't going to be hosting the Olympics.  Your moral relativism argument is bullshit (you could equally say in 1936 that most countries didn't accept Jews, so why get annoyed at Germany?) and the fact that the government is officially siding with the bigots is a serious issue.

1. Nope. It's a complete bullshit argument. Preventing Propaganda != Shit like what the Nazis did.
2. Again, democratically voted. The whole bullshit " Putin is an oppressive dictator conservative racist nazi!" argument has no ground. Russia went to huge lengths to make the elections transparent. It's obvious that there is some sort of bias in these things. Also, " Propaganda victory"? How the hell does Olympics= Anti-homosexual propaganda victory?
3. Remember the guy who got lots of golds at those 1936 Olympics? No? Alright then. And yes, it is fully their right in government to prevent people meddling in children's young orientation development.
4. It's not bigotry. That's the thing, it provides a neutral environment. ( The laws against propaganda) and stops them from attempting to play up homosexuality as something superior. ( As people have been doing.)

[Loud Whispers]

http://rt.com/news/russia-jews-fry-comment-396/
Thoughts? I've always wondered why the hell people should care about the democratically voted laws of another country. And the logic of it is appealing as well. Still, your thoughts Bay12?

Countries where homosexuality is legally punished by death: Maldives, Iran, Afghanistan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Somaliland, Nigeria, Mauritania, Sudan
Countries where homosexuality is cause for life imprisonment: Sierra Leone, Uganda, Tanzania, Guyana
Countries where homosexuality is cause for whipping: Malawi, Maldives, Malaysia
Countries where homosexuality is cause for imprisonment but not for life [though it may last for years]: Algeria, Libya, Gambia, Ghana, Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria, Senegal, Togo, Cameroon, Burundi, Eritrea, Kenya, Uganda, Comoros, Mauritius, Seychelles, Malawi, Zambia, Western Sahara, Somaliland, Belize, Antigua & Barbuda, Dominica, Grenada, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Trinidad and Tobago, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kuwait, Oman, Palestinian Territories, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Tuvalu, Tonga, Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea, Malaysia,  Brunei, Saudi Arabia.
Countries where free speech is crushed by disallowing the publication of any positive lgbt media: Russia, Lebanon, all of the above.
Countries people give a fuck about: Russia.
I guess it's just a case of people only really empathizing with whatever's in front of them, whatever's given to them. If you ask me, every Olympics should be held in Russia if you want to see it fall, the whole bloody thing's a waste of money that is in itself a perpetuation of human rights violations.

[LordSlowpoke]

http://rt.com/news/russia-jews-fry-comment-396/
Thoughts? I've always wondered why the hell people should care about the democratically voted laws of another country. And the logic of it is appealing as well. Still, your thoughts Bay12?

Countries where homosexuality is legally punished by death: Maldives, Iran, Afghanistan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Somaliland, Nigeria, Mauritania, Sudan
Countries where homosexuality is cause for life imprisonment: Sierra Leone, Uganda, Tanzania, Guyana
Countries where homosexuality is cause for whipping: Malawi, Maldives, Malaysia
Countries where homosexuality is cause for imprisonment but not for life [though it may last for years]: Algeria, Libya, Gambia, Ghana, Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria, Senegal, Togo, Cameroon, Burundi, Eritrea, Kenya, Uganda, Comoros, Mauritius, Seychelles, Malawi, Zambia, Western Sahara, Somaliland, Belize, Antigua & Barbuda, Dominica, Grenada, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Trinidad and Tobago, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kuwait, Oman, Palestinian Territories, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Tuvalu, Tonga, Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea, Malaysia,  Brunei, Saudi Arabia.
Countries where free speech is crushed by disallowing the publication of any positive lgbt media: Russia, Lebanon, all of the above.
Countries people give a fuck about: Russia.
I guess it's just a case of people only really empathizing with whatever's in front of them, whatever's given to them. If you ask me, every Olympics should be held in Russia if you want to see it fall, the whole bloody thing's a waste of money that is in itself a perpetuation of human rights violations.

i'd usually hate to undermine something that is basically one of my points put into better words but from where did you get that list? i feel it might be very useful to me sometime