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Author Topic: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread  (Read 1285762 times)

penguinofhonor

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #4290 on: December 17, 2012, 05:40:28 pm »

Ebbor, I'd appreciate it if you edited the content out of your post and moved it elsewhere. And if you didn't ignore me in the future.
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MonkeyHead

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #4291 on: December 23, 2012, 09:37:55 am »

Reporter covering protest against sex crimes in India shot dead...

There is so much wrong with this I just dont know where to start.

SalmonGod

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #4292 on: December 23, 2012, 10:52:43 am »

Reporter covering protest against sex crimes in India shot dead...

There is so much wrong with this I just dont know where to start.

I have a couple friends in India who are posting a lot of stuff about rape lately.  Looks like some major failures in law enforcement on the subject over there, and a lot of popular anger about it.
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kaijyuu

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #4293 on: December 23, 2012, 11:15:28 am »

The article seems to say the protests are against giving the rapists "weak" sentences like life imprisonment. They want nothing less than the death penalty.

Can't say I'm in agreement with the protesters, here. Though I am in agreement with their right to protest and not get beaten or shot, of course. The sin of india's government in this case is trying to put down the protests.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

Scoops Novel

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #4294 on: December 23, 2012, 11:36:15 am »

I presume that life imprisonment, with the corruption in India, doesn't mean much.
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kaijyuu

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #4295 on: December 23, 2012, 12:31:33 pm »

Then should they not be protesting about corruption?
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

Helgoland

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #4296 on: December 23, 2012, 12:33:43 pm »

They know that's a hopeless cause :P

But seriously, they do. But corruption is one of the hardest things to prevent, becausse you can't just shoot fire a few people and be done with it.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #4297 on: December 23, 2012, 12:50:46 pm »

Corruption reduction has a few field proven methodologies. The simplest is to make the penalty for corruption so insanely high that nobody would take the risk. The main problem with that is that you need someone extremely powerful and extremely convicted to make such policy in the first place, and it also usually involves human rights violations. High treason was very rare in England because you'd get hanged, drawn, and quartered if you did, and it was the only crime which resulted in such a crazy violent punishment.

Then there's weaponized pride. Ataturk did this, as did several Central American nations. If you can get people to believe strongly in your country, corruption will take care of itself because people will follow the spirit of your institution. It's a bad idea to offer someone a bribe when they see it as sullying the worth of their great nation. This is effective but difficult.

You can also take the opposite end of the risk-assessment strategy, and make conditions for not being corrupt so good that embracing corruption isn't a worthwhile endeavor. You can do this both with and without simultaneously doing the first strategy. The main problem is that if you don't employ adequate safeguards, the corrupt will just take your benefits and continue to secretly be corrupt.

Finally, there's revolution. Burn it all down and chop the fucker's heads off, you're running the show now. Nothing like a cleansing righteous fire to get rid of corruption. The problem here is that it is very easy to go full circle, or end up even worse than your predecessors.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 12:56:57 pm by MetalSlimeHunt »
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
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Truean

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #4298 on: December 23, 2012, 01:10:48 pm »

http://news.yahoo.com/mitts-son-says-never-wanted-president-anyway-150612736.html

He sure seems to have spent an awful lot of his and other people's money on something he didn't want.
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lorb

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #4299 on: December 23, 2012, 01:15:39 pm »

The article seems to say the protests are against giving the rapists "weak" sentences like life imprisonment. They want nothing less than the death penalty.

That is what it looks like, but the cause for their anger is that everyone knows at least one girl/woman who has been sexually assaulted or raped and nobody got any sentence. It's not about the single case, it's about the usually weak or non-existing sentences/prosecution.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #4300 on: December 23, 2012, 01:20:03 pm »

I've heard many a tale about India's hostile sexual environment, especially when immigration causes it to spill over to places without the same standard. Supposedly, men will go so far as to grope random women openly and violently, and this isn't seen as abnormal.

I can't say I'm too surprised. India is one of those places where the law has totally blown past the population's social expectations, to the degree that neither are on the same spectrum anymore. Parliamentary democracy and universal human rights are a strange thing in a nation where there's still a latent caste system and more religious Hindus try to sell off their daughters as child brides.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

Leafsnail

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #4301 on: December 23, 2012, 01:24:03 pm »

Genuine openness and accountability is another way to prevent corruption.  It's also probably literally the hardest thing to get politicians to vote for.
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Pnx

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #4302 on: December 23, 2012, 01:44:45 pm »

http://news.yahoo.com/mitts-son-says-never-wanted-president-anyway-150612736.html

He sure seems to have spent an awful lot of his and other people's money on something he didn't want.
In all honesty I kind of suspected this was the case, I don't think the republicans really expected to win the presidential election, they've just been too unpopular recently, and as much as people rip on Obama he does have popular appeal, I also suspect that the reason they didn't want Ron Paul to run is because they feared he might win, and that A) might mean they'd have to change their crazy policies, and B) a conservative would be in office when the economy was bad.

This might be a bit too conspiracy theory-y, but I think they want Obama in office right now so they can point at him later and say, "The democrats didn't do anything when they were in charge." or something.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #4303 on: December 23, 2012, 01:55:11 pm »

He's just trying to save face, trust me, the Republicans wanted this bad.

Besides, even if that was their plan, it is failing miserably. Opinion polls show that the whole fiscal cliff situation is falling on the Republican's heads right now.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

Scoops Novel

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #4304 on: December 23, 2012, 02:47:21 pm »

http://news.yahoo.com/mitts-son-says-never-wanted-president-anyway-150612736.html

He sure seems to have spent an awful lot of his and other people's money on something he didn't want.
In all honesty I kind of suspected this was the case, I don't think the republicans really expected to win the presidential election, they've just been too unpopular recently, and as much as people rip on Obama he does have popular appeal, I also suspect that the reason they didn't want Ron Paul to run is because they feared he might win, and that A) might mean they'd have to change their crazy policies, and B) a conservative would be in office when the economy was bad.

This might be a bit too conspiracy theory-y, but I think they want Obama in office right now so they can point at him later and say, "The democrats didn't do anything when they were in charge." or something.

Not in the slightest. Considering, it was probably their go-to rather then contingency plan.
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